Talk:Allgemeine SS

Wilk Notice

I reverted a wilkify notice because I could find nothing wrong with this article. Any specific problems? Thanks -Husnock 5 Nov 04

The article seems to be a word for word translation from the german language. Sometimes, the sentences are mixed up or don't make any sense at all. It is very hard to copyedit the article from the existing material because of the many quotations who are just word for word translations and pretty hard to understand - even for a native speaker of German. I tried very hard to get a little bit of the article in the right order but its pretty hard and I think my english is not as good as it should to get the sentences really smooth. --DocBrown 00:01, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

DocBrown, I have been meaning to copyedit this article for some time for the same reasons that you mention. As a professional German-English translator with a pretty good background in history I can certainly do that, although it would really take quite a lot of work. The effort might seem more worthwhile if the article had more references - maybe Postmann Michael could add some? Jbhood 10:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, I think there should be some in-text references, especially because the SS is inherently a controversial topic. Jbhood 10:11, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

You're absolutly right. There are some references, but all of them are german books. Maybe it is possible to find some online references or english language books. The main source for the "Members" Section seems to be "Der Orden unterm Totenkopf", H. Hoehne. --DocBrown 20:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

An unregistred User, the IP 81.182.204.124 , has helped to copyedit the article into the english language. Thank you, unknown user! --DocBrown 14:05, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Though English references are preferred, in this case the German sources may well contain better material. All the same, I think we need more in-line references. Jbhood 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm removing a sentence that claim the majority of the people in the SS were formerly racketeers, criminals and ultra-violent veterans; it is unsourced and has no support anywhere outside of YouTube user-comments. Kolm H (talk) 07:24, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

It does not make that claim. --< Nicht Nein! (talk) 11:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

There are some seeming errors in this article - whether down to it being translated from German I don't know - as do so many it confuses the police and the SS at least in terms of origin (the Gestapo after all was originally the political police and it and the Kripo were rolled into the Security Police under the heading of Sicherheitspolizei; the phrasing 'SS security forces (mainly the SD, Gestapo, and Kripo)' make it sound like they were an SS originated force) and the comments about the holding of dual rank are misleading - Kappler for intance (of Ardeantine Caves infamy) was a reserve sergeant only between June 11, 1935 - September 21, 1936. Equally its not correct that all Allegemeine SS personnel wore field grey after 1940 - some wore pale grey but only those at staff level etc - those persons in ordinairy Sturmbann who remained in the Alegemine SS due to a restricted occupation still wore the black uniform. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.150.127 (talk) 23:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

The 'phrasing' error has been fixed. I did a minor re-write. The fact is all three were under Heydrich's overall supervision; command and control. And under him, SS members were placed or former police official's remained (after joining the SS), in command and control of the "rank and file". Then on 27 Sept. 1939, the three units (SD, Gestapo and Kripo) were all rolled into the new SS-RSHA and became departments therein; all under Heydrich. Kierzek (talk) 16:09, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

acronyms need expanding

All acronyms used in the article should feature the expanded form in their first appearance with the acronym in brackets follwing afterwards. All further appearances are fine as acronyms. This applies even to the obvious ones such as SS. Can someone who knows the content please do this. JenLouise 05:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

copy-edit

• changed "that it the SS than such since 1939 no more did not exist" to "that the SS since 1939 did not exist anymore" - please check that is what it meant.

There are still heaps of places that need attention from more than just a copy-editor. I have therefore changed the tag. JenLouise 06:12, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Dubious HSSPF of Brigadefuhrer rank

"Allies began to separate higher-rankged SS and police leaders (Höherer SS- und Polizeiführer) bearing the Allgemeine rank of Brigadeführer or higher" - this phrase is dubious because of simultaneous use of "Höherer" ("Higher") and "Brigadeführer".

In fact, all "Higher" SS and Police Leader (HSSPF) held at least a Gruppenführer rank [1], and "ordinal" leaders were ranked from Oberführer (and still could be accountable for atricities). If this Brigadeführer remark was not placed in an erroneous assumption of any ties to SSPF or HSSPF title, it needs a source with explanation why the Allies would specifically look for SS leaders of Brigadeführer rank but not Standartenführer or Oberführer.

I see the following explanations and none of them are entirely convincing:

1. Separate SS officers ranked Brigadeführer or higher, in hope they are one of the "Higher" SS and Police Leader (a possibility, however, out of 250 or so Brigadeführers [2], only 6 held SSPF titles, all of them placed in mainland Germany)
2. Specifically separate every SS and Police Leader known, not only "Higher" leaders (then Brigadeführer remark is not really needed)
3. Separate only SS and Police Leader ranked Brigadeführer or higher (makes no sense, see above)

Please clafify the phrase by consulting with a known source. --83.167.100.36 (talk) 05:23, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Initials

Anyone else notice these guys' initials are ASS? Seems kind of fitting for these soldiers who would follow orders as loyally as a dog and killed people literally without feeling, doesn't it? These ASS men bashed infants on trees until they died. 24.218.180.19 (talk) 22:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, they were only, always known as general SS members with the initials of simply SS, unless they belonged to a specific section. For example, members of the SD were Allgemeine SS (general SS) members who wore the SD diamond on their sleeve. I am sure many members were "asses" but "A-SS" was not the official initials for general SS members. Kierzek (talk) 00:48, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Dachau massacre

In my humble opinion, many of these murderers got exactly what they deserved that day. Wouldn't all of you agree? The Dachau massacre should have instead been known as "Just Desserts." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.180.19 (talk) 01:29, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Einsatzgruppe composition

Most authors also give a non insignificant particpation by Wehrmacht personnel in some if not all the Einsatzgruppen - there is of course an agenda in some circles to try and row the German Army out of any involvement in war crimes but as Bartov etc demonstrates this is simply wishful thinking - who after all provided the gaurds for the POW camps where so many Russian soldiers died - and equally Wehrmacht rear area security divisions and Feldgendarmerie units were involved in anti partisan actions (with all the concommittant massacres of civilians, hostage taking etc that this involved)up to their necks.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.150.127 (talk) 23:08, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

You will find that on Wikipedia the inclusion of the role of the Wehrmacht Heer has NOT been overlooked. See: War crimes of the Wehrmacht and Einsatzgruppen, for example. Kierzek (talk) 15:53, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion

May I suggest to change the currently used English translation of Allgemeine SS from "General SS" to something like "Common SS", "Ordinary SS", "Regular SS", my preference going to "Common SS"? The current term may rise some initial confusion with the homonymous noun and its different meaning in military realm. Carlotm (talk) 18:00, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose as General SS is what is used the most in translation by WP:RS sources. Where one could argue all of the above can be said to have some vagueness to them, I believe it should be left with "General". But await what others have to say. Kierzek (talk) 18:11, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
• OPPOSE: The vast majority of official academic texts translate the term Allgemeine-SS as "General-SS" and have done so for the past seventy years. To change the name to a different title would go against sources and probably also break the WP:NAME policy. -O.R.^Comms 18:25, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Most numerous branch of the Schutzstaffel

The intro states that the The Allgemeine SS (General SS) was the most numerous branch of the Schutzstaffel (SS) paramilitary forces of Nazi German. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here but the Allgemeine SS had, according to the article, 100,000 employees while the Waffen-SS had 900,000. Wouldn't that make the Waffen-SS the most numerous branch of the Schutzstaffel? Could somebody please clarify? Turismond (talk) 01:14, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

I understand your point and tweaked, accordingly. It was the most "numerous branch" up to a point in time, but was surpassed as far as the number of members later on. Kierzek (talk) 14:04, 20 September 2018 (UTC)