Talk:Alparslan Türkeş

Untitled

This article should not be in "wikiproject faschism", it should be in -if there exist- "wikiproject nationalism"... Because, all graywolves MUST PROMISE to defend the fronts AGAINST THE FASCHIST STRUGGLES before being a gray wolf. How can someone add an anti-fa to wiki faschist project?

Neutrality

This article lacks neutrality in almost everyway. And most of the information is inacccurate. There are too much baseless accusations (some of them are very insulting)about said person. Language is very disrespectful and offensive. Noone dead or alive deserves such treatment. Even articles about known terrorists like Abdullah Öcalan is much more respectful and neutral than this article.

Isatay 06:28, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree. In particular, the 'Legacy' section only talks of the post-death 'fraud charges'. I find it hard to believe that a man who represented the views of a portion of the population and still has a significant number of followers through his ideology only has this "legacy" that he left behind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.58.132.205 (talk) 22:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The Modern Cosmopolitan, Multi-Ethnic Turkish State

Öcalan is not a terrorist: he is someone who has fought for the democratic rights of his ethnic group: the Turkish state made a terrorist of him and other Kurds (and martyrs!) by denying them civil rights,freedom of expression and education in their own language. Your POV stems from what are clearly fairly extreme right-wing opinions, and you appear to be an apologist for the extreme fascist and racist views held by Türkeş, someone who was, in reality, on a par with the Serbian war-criminal, Vojislav Šešelj, currently awaiting trial in the Netherlands.

You ought to re-read the history of your country form 4000 BCE onwards: you will readily see that a host of different 'races'- Hattians, Hittites, Armenians, Greeks, North-west Caucasians, etc., have contributed to the present population of your country (in the devşirme of the the Ottoman period not a few from Balkan Christian countries also.) The actual proportion of Turkish Turks who settled in Turkey was relatively small. Many countries, at least in the West are very diverse and cosmopolitan in their 'ethnic' make-up. This illustrates why the racist tone of your comment is unbalanced and out of place in a modern context: you see everything in black and white, not at all in the many shades of grey.

Misguided views like yours have led to many outrages in Turkey. In the past few days we have witnessed the political assassination of the Turkish Armenian newspaper editor, Hrant Dink. Yet Turks wonder why EU member states are so very wary of admitting Turkey into the European Union. When Turkey can clearly demonstrate that all of its citizens are equal before the law, in what is in reality a multi-ethnic state, have genuine freedom of speech and enjoy full democratic and civic rights (which includes, incidentally, the right to criticize the actions of the present and past governments of Turkey, as well as individual public figures), we in Western Europe will welcome all Turks warmly as full members of our community of nations. 86.141.217.57 17:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:SOAPBOX, and see also Article 301, which you might be referring to. deniz^T_C 10:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Your claim is absurd, you are telling nonsense. The Turks came to Anatolia in several waves, the immigration of Turks to Anatolia started in 1044 and continued till 1800. The first large wave started right after the battle of Manzikert were hundreds of thousands of Turks came. They came as tribes mostly from eastern Iran. Later many more waves of Turks followed after the Mongols invaded central-asia and Iran, millions of Turks that ran from the mongols settled in Anatolia, Iran and northern-Iraq. The founders of the Ottoman empire came with this wave. Orrin_73 18:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

basbug does not mean fuhrer! basbug is a proturkic word that means leader.

what do you think führer means? deniz^T_C 10:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Führer comes from German word führen. The exact mean of führen is leading. And the translation of "führer" in to Turkish, is "önder". Also the word Başbuğ, used by Enver Paşa(he died before Hitler's reigm). Ruzgar 18:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Trivia Section

Trivia sections aren't proper encyclopedic content.

Also, a trivia section with a single piece of trivia, *related to a video game rather than the subject at hand*, is particularly non-encyclopedic.

It's gone. --24.5.70.65 00:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Sources

Need sources as to how Nihal Atsız espoused racist views. Atabəy (talk) 23:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

A People without a country, p85.

From 1965 onwards, Colonel Alparslan Turkes began to weld this tendency into an orgamized legal political party. Although he was well known for his fascist sympathies and had even been court-martialled in 1946 for "fascist and racist activities," Turkes was allowed to continue his career in the army."

The New geopolitics of Central Asia and its borderlands, p196.

Ecevit was prime minister in 1974 when Turkey intervened militarily in Cyprus. He has also been one of Turkes' principal critics, and often denounced him for his 'racist' views during the ideologically polarized party politics of the late 1970s.

Tormented by history, p.138.

Twenty three of them, among them Nihal Atsiz, Reha Oguz Turkkan and a young army captain by the name of Alparslan Turkes, who was later to leave his indelible mark on Turkish politics, were accused of engaging in a plot to overthrow the government in order to form a state based on racist and Turanist principles.

Do you not have access to these sources?? Is your employer blocking your searches?? --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Kansas Bear, please, follow Monte Melkonyan and ASALA pages. In both of them, calling terrorist as a terrorist is somehow considered WP:WEASEL or WP:POV, perhaps because they simply killed Turks. So clearly, the relentless attempts to claim Alparslan Türkeş, who by the way did not kill people unlike the two above, as neo-fascist (POV political interpretation) seems to have the only reason - that he was a Turk. Especially so, following your relentless attempts to discount Pan-Iranism-Nazi connection, despite multitude of references and the fact of deposition of Reza Shah for his fascination with Hitler, while being so assertive on Alparslan Türkeş is also a clear POV. So please, follow WP:NPOV, show us how the dichotomy of your opinions is NOT based on anything other than Turcophobia, and always WP:AGF. Thanks. Atabəy (talk) 04:42, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Relentless?[1] I made one comment on your inability to find sources concerning Alparslan Turkes' racist views, which according to sources listed above resulted in a court martial. Your "multitude" of references, last I checked was one, AND when using the same google book search you used and having the "Limited preview/Full view" setting, you find Pan-Iranism used in the same context as Pan-Turkism(twice by Bernard Lewis). Odd how you don't use those sources!! So why don't you continue to lecture me on bias. LMAO!! I believe the dichotomy is yours. Whereas, I'm not getting paid to edit wikipedia.

As for ASALA[2], check Hamas[3], Hezbollah[4], and al-Qaeda[5] for the use of the word terrorist.

Turcophobia??[6][7][8] LMAO!! So explain this "phobia of Turks"; from the pictures I've seen, they could be walking down the street in Kansas and would look like everyone else??!! I don't understand this racist delusion of yours, but my family is multi-ethnic, Hispanic, Asian, Black, and we even married some Irish!! So instead of launching into your pathetically weak nationalistic rant of "racism", you might take the time to notice I DID NOT edit into the article Alparslan's racist views or add said references to the article either!! Odd how you are free to label editors on wikipedia as racists but anyone of Turkish ancestry is "above" reproach?? Talk about a dichotomy!!

Odd that the typical nationalists use the same sad tactic every time I find sources concerning their "race".[9],[10],[11][12]. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:39, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Kansas Bear, again, please follow WP:AGF. There is no need for emotional responses in the form I don't understand this racist delusion of yours and your pathetically weak nationalistic rant, and the background of your family is irrelevant to this discussion. You have been warned for the last time to be more polite in future. The fact is that endorsing the removal of numerous sources on Nazi-Pan-Iranist connection in Pan-Iranism article, while reasserting that Alparslan Türkeş was neo-fascist simply because he was a pan-Turkist, is quite questionable in terms of neutrality and seems to be definitively Turcophobic. Turkism in this case does not imply race but cultural and linguistic heritage. Atabəy (talk) 22:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Anymore mention of "turkophobia" will be reported to the appropriate admins. Have a nice day. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

ALPARSLAN TÜRKEŞ ISN'T FACIST!

Alparslan Türkeş isn't facist or MHP isn't facist party! These are informations wrong! Turkish patriots aren't facist! You can say "nationalist" or "patriots people"...but not facist! İf people read this article, they will have wrong informations! This article isn't good for Wikipedia!

Alparslan wasn't racist. He supported the Chechen struggle against Russia. Chechens are Caucasian (literally Caucasian, not just white) and are not the same as Kazakhs, Turkmens, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz or Uygurs. Would he help fund that resistance if he were racially motivated?96.55.169.186 (talk) 09:40, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Facts

FYI, Özkırımlı, and Spyros [13] are listed as a Turk and a Greek, respectively. That reference and the one by Chaliand stated the same facts. Irregardless of ethnicity. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:03, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

• Neither are Peter Davies, Derek Lynch or Mehmet Özay. Yet those references were deleted with NO discussion. Typical disruptive editing. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:06, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Born Nicosia, Turkey (?)

Taken from the Wikipedia article on Nicosia: "The British Empire gained control over the island in 1878, with Nicosia serving as the capital of the new British possession." At the time of Turkes' birth Nicosia was a British colony, and now it's in Cyprus. Looking at other biographic articles it looks like the standard is to follow the city with the state in which the city existed at the time of birth, or to omit it entirely. I'll go ahead and revert it to Nicosia, Cyprus, but I'd like to hear your opinions on if it should actually be "Nicosia, British Empire" or just Nicosia. 194.154.149.197 (talk) 22:25, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Didn't the Brits call it the island Cyprus? --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:47, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

"I doubt if "Nicosia, British Empire" would be correct. Since the 1915 "annexation" was a wartime act, it would have been no more part of the British Empire than other occupied enemy territory such as the German colonies in Africa. Also, and for example, would someone born in Australia in the 19th century be referred to as having been born in "Sydney, British Empire"? I don't think so - it would be "Sydney, Australia". Meowy 22:17, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Sources

This is not reliable source. Takabeg (talk) 09:13, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

foto, kayda değerlik?

• kayda değerliği kuşkulu bir ismin, memleketin belirgin figürlerinden birinin biyografisindeki kutu resminin altında ne işi olduğunu söyleyebilir misiniz takabeg? hangi ünlünün biyografisinde böyle bir kutu resmi kullanılıyor? fotoğrafı ekleyenin bu konuda bir ayrıcalığı mı var? lütfen değişikliği geri almayın ve kayda değerlik konusunu bir daha gözden geçirin. değilse, herkesin ünlülerle çektirdiği fotoları buraya ekleyip altına da ismini yazmasının önüne nasıl geçileceğini düşünün. --Kibele (talk) 07:47, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

The person on the left of Türkeş is Hasan Sami Bolak. It's true. Takabeg (talk) 11:09, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

it is true, but not notable. this is encyclopedia, no? not memory of the some people. --Kibele (talk) 11:16, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

About his notability you can discuss on Talk:Hasan Sami Bolak. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 11:35, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

• maddeye kayda değerlik etiketi eklendi zaten, kalanı ile ilgilenmek gibi bir niyetim yok. ancak kişi burada kayda değer sayılsa bile, bu maddenin başındaki fotoda ismi geçmez. recep tayyip erdoğan maddesinin başına, ibrahim tatlıses'le ya da müzeyyen senar'la çekilmiş fotosunu koyup altına da ismini yazmıyoruz değil mi? --Kibele (talk) 12:26, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Birth Name

His name was Hüseyin Feyzullah. He changed his Arabic name (both given and family names) into Turkish later.--85.104.65.134 (talk) 13:06, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Ethnicity

I acknowledge that there are "hidden" Armenians currently in Turkey, for this reason I tried to find more sources that backup Fatma Müge Göçek's claim but I haven't found anything. We need more sources to verify this claim because right now this source does not seem credible on its own. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.241.23 (talk) 23:17, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

"We need more sources to verify this claim because right now this source does not seem credible on its own."

That is your opinion. Göçek is a published academic of numerous books concerning the impact of processes such as development, nationalism, religious movements and collective violence on minorities. The source is published by Oxford University press and written by Göçek, who is an historian[14] that is well qualified. I see nothing wrong with the source. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:54, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree with you, Göçek is a respected academic (that is why I have not removed it). However, Dink's claim alone is not enough to disregard tones of sources that state that he was born in Cyprus. We need further evidence to backup his claim that a) he was an Armenian; and b) that he was born in Turkey. Can you provide this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.241.23 (talk) 00:35, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Which does not explain why you removed Göçek's name from the article. Next time, I will alert an Admin to your problems. --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:44, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

It would be nice if you were a bit more pleasant rather than threatening me with Admins. Göçek does not claim anything, she merely writes Dink's claim during the "personal interview": "For instance, he stated that [Dink], ironically, the founder and leader of the National Action Party, Alparslan Turkes, was himself an Armenian..." So what you are doing is pretty misleading because she claims nothing. I do appreciate your quick replies but hope that if you do reply back (which I hope you do) you either are more pleasant and easier to talk with or that you just provide more sources to backup Dink's claim, as I originally asked for. Cheers.

Let's see, an IP that shows up and starts editing within the scope of Ottoman/Turkish/Armenian/Azerbaijan, brings no viable reason to doubt a source published by a university and written by a historian, uses no explanations in their edit summaries and edits with a clearly POV(self opinionated) slant. Something tells me you are not a "new user" and most likely are a blocked user that has edited in this area before. So as for my "pleasantness", I have seen this done before and the IP in question always ends up blocked. So continue your POV editing, I will enjoy watching you get blocked/banned. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:37, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

True, I've used Wikipedia in the past but I've never been blocked. It would be really nice if you take me seriously and have a civilized discussion. I haven't edited articles on Azerbaijan or Armenia, and even if I had it should not matter. Can you please stick to the subject? Perhaps we can compromise by writing "In a personal interview with Fatma Müge Göçek the journalist Hrant Dink claimed that Türkeş was of Armenian descent, an orphan originally from Sivas who was adopted by Muslims in Cyprus". 217.42.241.23 (talk) 16:34, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

If you do not wish to reach a compromise then we should take this to mediation. Just to be clear, I have no problem with the source being in the article. However, Göçek is not the one claiming that he is an Armenian; she is merely discussing her interview with Dink in a footnote. I have already asked you for further sources, which you seem to be avoiding. The least you can do is stick to the discuss, assume good faith, and compromise. 217.42.241.23 (talk) 16:49, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

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