Talk:Alphabet City, Manhattan

AREA

I'm surprised no one has said what Alphabet City's area is...Undead Herle King (talk) 15:18, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Removal Of Opinion

Did I spell that right? Anyway, the fact that the yuppies are taking over, is yes, a negative thing in most people opinions, but not everyones, right? I mean, I think it's a negative thing, but it's still an opinion isn't it?

Anyway, I removed the "On The Plus Side" and replaced it with "Recently" because new buisness and apartments are NOT neccasarily a good thing. Cyprus 28 June 2005 13:56 (UTC)

No. Yuppies are pure evil. --Tothebarricades 01:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Avenue Q

Avenue Q is a parody of Avenues A, B, C, and D? I thought it referred to Avenue Q in Brooklyn. -- Sheepshead Bay —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.113.104.47 (talk • contribs) 13:56, 13 November 2005

There is no Avenue Q in Brooklyn. The street which is being refered to is Quentin Road, which is located where Avenue Q would be in the Brooklyn street lettering scheme--Snoopy753 13:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

most people I know thought it referred to the real avenue Q (or Quentin Rd, but people still refer to it as Ave Q), too. The wikipedia page on the musical mentions this ave, plus the alphabet city possibility, but says that the authors have stated that it doesn't refer specifically to either of these. I'm going to delete the reference to Avenue Q the musical, unless someone else presents some kind of evidence that it's really referring to Alphabet city. Mahern 05:50, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

What about the line "I started at Avenue A..." I forget the exact wording, but the jist of it was, he couldn't afford anything he saw until he hit Q. Kuronue 01:49, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Who is the he in the line "He states he started at Avenue A but everything was too expensive until he got to 'Avenue Q'." Snoopy753 13:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Research and Opinions

Not sure about that. Anyone want to do some research to see if the man who did Supersize Me actually lives here? I was under the impression that he lives in Soho or the LES. Then again, depends on your definition of names and borders. Cyprus 00:59, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

The Title Of The Page

Alphabet city was a term developers coined to make the neighbourhood more popular during gentrification.. It sounds better to potential buyers then "Loisida". Maybe this should be changed somehow? —Preceding unsigned comment added by RatherBeBiking (talk • contribs) 20:30, 9 January 2006

"East Village" is the name made up by real estate agents in order to associate the neighborhood with the "classier" West Village. Alphabet City has been the designation for the single letter blocks for many, many years. That being said, most neighborhood names are somewhat arbitrary (except to those of us who live here!) and are constantly shifting according to real estate agents' whims. For instance, the recent creation of "East Williamsburg" in Brooklyn which is really a part of what has traditionally been considered Bushwick. 166.137.14.149 (talk) 09:15, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Avenue A

I've noticed that "Avenue A", "Avenue B", etc. all redirect here, but there is a stub article about Avenue A at Avenue A (Manhattan). Should this be merged? Should "Avenue A" be changed to redirect to that stub? --Larry V (talk | contribs) 12:57, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes - I'll do a redirect. --DavidShankBone 16:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality Tag

Just so that people don't hyperventilate I'll attempt to explain some of the reasons-a few of them alluded to in aforementioned comments-behind the neutrality/factual tag.

Primarily, the overall tone of the article, which is suffused with subjectivity and bias.

The implicit-and sometimes explicit-assumption that gentrification is necessarily bad. Or conversely, that the "culture" of a more crime-ridden, chaotic neighborhood was preferable.

Also, I have a bit of a problem with the way the Tompkins Square Riot is described. Ruthfulbarbarity 21:05, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Ruth, I am going to take down the neutrality tag because you don't actually highlight what you find objectionable - these reasons are too vague and require another editor to pore over the article trying to guess what you find objectionable. You don't give any issues that a person can actually address. You should give examples from the article, instead of leaving it for us to figure out what--or where--you take issue with the tone. Once you give examples from the article, we can discuss with the POV tag up. Please see Wikipedia:When people complain rather than edit. --DavidShankBone 16:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough.

One major objection-among many-would be this section,

Recent history and gentrification

The drawback to redevelopment has been that many families, artists and small businesses can no longer afford to remain in the neighborhood. Young urban professionals or "yuppies" now dominate the area around Avenues A and B. Avenue C is still a transitional area, but rents are rising quickly and many long-time residents and businesses are being priced out of the market.

Avenue D, home to a number of large low-income housing projects, seems destined to remain affordable for the foreseeable future, although plans have been floated in city hall which call for the eventual destruction of the housing projects and redevelopment of the waterfront along East River Park. As part of the gentrification, the area lost a number of community gardens, which were planted by residents in vacant lots. These gardens serve as valuable green space in the densely built neighborhood. A recent major loss has been the Charas community center.

The first part is subjective-a recurring theme in this article-while the second is speculative and extremely tendentious. Why are community gardens more valuable than new businesses? Even if they are, do you think that's a ineference that a purportedly unbiased, encylcopedic article should draw? Ruthfulbarbarity 01:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I want to add the statement "plans have been floated in city hall which call for the eventual destruction of the housing projects" is false. There are no plans to shut down the massive low income public housing projects that line the East River. The NYCHA and the city overall is dealing with a severe low income housing shortage. The waiting list to move into NYCHA property can take up to ten years. What was "floating around" was an idea to shut down small complexes (one or two buildings) in very wealthy locations (Not the LES/Alphabet City, think Ira S. Robbins Plaza at East 70th Street), then relocate those people to newer developments in other neighborhoods (areas with lots of projects most likely, poor areas). This was just an idea and never confirmed. The problem is these buildings would need total gut rehabilitations. Everything in them was built for durability at the lowest price, not to be appealing. They would probably end up being torn down for new luxury highrises. It is the land that has value. As of now the NYCHA is still opening and expanding new complexes in the Bronx and Brooklyn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwiki718 (talk • contribs) 22:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Citations

This page needs citations!!! Right now it reads like an opinion piece...it contains some historical/factual stuff but it's not cited! Surely one could find sources? Cazort 21:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Map

It isn't apparent to people who aren't familiar with New York City whether the location of the neighbourhood on the map is the pink section or the blue section. Could someone who is familiar with the city edit the caption to clarify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.14.54 (talk) 08:14, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I think it should be noted too that the coloring of the map is incorrect, the blue includes 1st Avenue which is not technically part of the neighborhood, it is bounded by Avenue A (1 block to the right of 1st Avenue) to Avenue D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.39.17 (talk) 07:06, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

That "blue" looks purple to me. 78.86.61.94 (talk) 00:09, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Taxi Driver reference

I removed the bullet point that stated Alphabet City was the backdrop for Taxi Driver, as it's not correct. The tenement where the finale occurs is 240 E. 13th Street (according to the envelop addressed to Iris; on an external shot, the address is 226, street unknown), which is between 2nd and 3rd Avenues.

Also, the film takes place in many other locations around the City: Times Square, Columbus Circle, 63rd and Broadway. And no where is Alphabet City mentioned explicitly. Halda (talk) 18:16, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

23rd Street and Ave. C?

From the article: It consisted of tenement housing with no running water, and the primary bathing location for residents in the northern half of the area was the Asser Levy bath house on 23rd Street and Avenue C, north of Peter Cooper Village and Stuyvesant Town.

Is this correct? Avenue C doesn't go up that high. At first I thought it was because Stuyvesant Town had been built over the area, but looking at a map, Avenue C can't reach 23rd Street; the East River gets in the way at around 18th. Since today's Asser Levy Place lines up perfectly with Avenue A, north of Stuy Town and Peter Cooper Village, I'm thinking that the 'Avenue C' part is a mistake. Should it be corrected? Mark Yaima (talk) 23:43, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

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(Re)focus article on Alphabet City (as opposed to East Village)

The current geographic boundaries of Alphabet City are relatively clear (at most, east of First from the center of Houston to the center of 14th). Yet, as of this note, significant chunks of the article are ripped from the East Village article and apply only to the East Village as a whole (eg, population) or areas outside Alphabet City (eg, early development as a posh residential area). Readers have no way of knowing this because "East Village" has been more or less search-and-replaced with "Alphabet City." Editors, by dint of their conservatism and inclusionism, tend to work around or even elaborate points that were tossed in thoughtlessly.

I want to encourage interested editors to take a scythe to the interloping East Villageana. Not to points that add context or problematize Alphabet City's problematic designation. Not to insufficiently notable facts about Alphabet City. But to East Village statements masquerading as Alphabetic ones (I'm doing what I can, but yeesh it's a mess). Unendin (talk) 19:23, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

I've begun the localization process with the "Early development" section (renamed "Before urbanization"). The previous version, drawn largely from Greenwich Village Historical Society reports, treated Alphabet City like the land to the west of it, settled by a succession of people. In fact, it was mostly swamp—claimed and utilized, but not really settled. Unendin (talk) 18:06, 7 December 2021 (UTC)