Talk:Aly Saad

This page should not be speedy deleted because...

This page should not be speedily deleted because... (the page is not complete yet, so why are you so in hurry for deleting it ?) --AbdallahAly (talk) 10:45, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

By the same token, why are you so in a hurry to publish it to main space before it is ready for publication? Why don't you develop it in draft space until it is complete? —teb728 t c 10:58, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Resume

Please note this is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, not a resume. Please see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not the place to post your résumé.
Please do not re-add the massively overlong "publications and researches" yet again, as this will be considered as vandalism.
Please also remove, or integrate into prose, the lists of "Awards", "Memberships" and "International World Wide Research Programs" Thank you - Arjayay (talk) 16:35, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

vandalism

"On Wikipedia, vandalism is the act of editing the project in a malicious manner that is intentionally disruptive. Vandalism includes the addition, removal, or other modification of the text or other material that is either humorous, nonsensical, a hoax, or that is of an offensive, humiliating, or otherwise degrading nature." , therefore , Arjayay is not being neutral and shows a big misunderstanding of vandalism.

Your citation precisely proves my point:-
As articles should not be resumes (see links in post above), repeatedly re-adding such material, once that has been pointed out, is "intentionally disruptive", which, by your own description, is vandalism.
Adding/re-adding such material before that had been pointed out, might possibly be seen as "unintentionally disruptive", hence my post above. - Arjayay (talk) 17:54, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

also i could say repeatedly "re-removing" such material, once that has been pointed out, is "intentionally disruptive", which, by your own description, is vandalism ..... , again you are being not neutral, as there are other articles with bigger references, you even want to enforce (and not propose) your own structure for the article ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.205.6.111 (talk) 18:33, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

References

Biased vandalism/data removal

Arjayay, as for insisting on Biased removal of data with COI, please check Ahmed_Zewail, Albert Eisntein, and many others, and stop vandalizing the article as a the CV of the professor is way bigger than this — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.205.6.111 (talk) 21:44, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Before removing any data

please check and compare to Ahmed Zewail, Albert Einstein and many others if requested, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.205.6.111 (talk) 20:23, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Comparisons

Although I do not agree with comparisons, I have, as you requested, looked at the Albert Einstein article. This is a "Good" article so it should be a fair example:-

The Einstein article has a "Readable prose size" (click "Page size" in the left hand column) of 9,199 words, supported by 185 references, and has a list of 22 publications.
The Saad article has a "Readable prose size" of 54 words, supported by one reference, and your preferred version has a list of 69 publications.

The Einstein article, therefore, has 418 words for every publication listed, the Saad has 0.782 words for every publication listed, or in other words, Einstein has 534 times as much text for every publication. The Saad article is, therefore, totally unbalanced.

You should also read WP:Notability (academics) as Wikipedia has a very high benchmark for including academics in particular

"Having published does not, in itself, make an academic notable, no matter how many publications there are. Notability depends on the impact the work has had on the field of study. This notability guideline specifies criteria for judging the notability of an academic through reliable sources for the impact of their work."

Similarly, only "major academic awards, such as the Nobel Prize, MacArthur Fellowship, the Fields Medal, the Bancroft Prize, the Pulitzer Prize for History, etc" confer any notability.

Currently, the only reference about Saad himself, rather than his writings etc. is the university website, which is not WP:Independent - you need to find, and include references, to show he has from significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Without such references the article could be nominated for deletion. - Arjayay (talk) 07:51, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Article Deletion

• Again you talk about deleting the article, and you didn't consider the second article i showed you and i can show you more if you request, so that you are sure about it, never the less, such an article about Einstein ha more than 20 editors !!!! while this article has 2 editors and 1 editor who just wants to delete everything, it seems you don't want to fix anything but keep finding excuses, while i don't have that much time like you do.

• We are talking about the publications section here and their references, you can not distribute the whole article words over all the references, because the publications section has each paper title and it's reference, do you understand ?

• The references for the publications are very reliable, again i will mention them, European Heart Journal and Oxford University Press ....

Real comparison

• comparison of the publications section :
  • Einstein Article : publications section has 6969 letters for 51 references = 136.6 letters per reference (including the reference doi and title ....)
  • This Article : publications section has 25015 letters for 68 references = 367.8 letters per reference

Replies

You obviously have not read, or perhaps not understood, WP:Notability (academics) which I have suggested above.
I repeat publications do not, "make an academic notable, no matter how many publications there are"
Repeatedly talking about the references for the publications is, therefore, irrelevant, to showing the notability of Aly Saad.

I am pointing our Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, not "finding excuses", and articles that do not follow these policies and guidelines are likely to be deleted.
Rather than just nominate this article for deletion, I am trying to help you by explaining what you need to do to reduce the likelihood of deletion.

As has already been explained to you, comparisons with other articles is generally not acceptable, but as you kept asking me, I have shown you how radically different your article is from a "Good article" such as Albert Einstein - it doesn't matter how many more articles you point to, such comparisons are not acceptable, we do not want to copy the worst, we want to copy the best.
As for your "Real comparison" section - I don't know what you are trying to prove - but there are only 22 publications listed in the Einstein article, not 51, so these are not "real" figures.

I note you have removed the conflict of interest tag from the article - could you please explain why you are so determined to try and keep these excessive Resume/CV type additions, if you do not have a conflict of interest? Thank you. - Arjayay (talk) 12:08, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Contradiction

"The Einstein article, therefore, has 418 words for every publication listed, the Saad has 0.782 words for every publication listed, or in other words, Einstein has 534 times as much text for every publication. The Saad article is, therefore, totally unbalanced". ~Arjayay

So basically contradict yourself , distributing the whole article words over the publications section makes no sense ! then you speak about references and "Notability" ... you keep mangling references with publications. you want to remove the publications section which exists in a lot of biography articles ... ,same goes for awards and other sections, it is a fact !

Reply

I am not "distributing the whole article words over the publications section" - I am pointing out that this article is highly imbalanced, with a "readable prose size" of just 54 words, but vast lists - which is why I believe it is a resume/CV not an encyclopedia article - it tells us almost nothing about Aly Saad.

As previously explained, publications do not, "make an academic notable, no matter how many publications there are" so you need to add reliable sources to show that Aly Saad meets WP:Notability (academics)

As previously explained, "comparisons with other articles is generally not acceptable"; so your long list of other articles, is irrelevant

I repeat my unanswered question "could you please explain why you are so determined to try and keep these excessive Resume/CV type additions, if you do not have a conflict of interest?"

Thank you - Arjayay (talk) 14:27, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Reply

• The answer to your question is the list of references i offered you now, they have almost same structure, would you go "fix" them or you just ignore all wikipedia and want enforce your own article structure over this article ? once you answer this question you will understand, that you can not just enforce your own views and ignore what others do/did.
• the only section you keep removing is the publciations section, which poses the question, why this article and not the others ?

Before I reply to your points, could you please answer the question I have asked twice already, but you have not answered:-
- "Could you please explain why you are so determined to try and keep these excessive Resume/CV type additions, if you do not have a conflict of interest?"
Thank you - Arjayay (talk) 15:10, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

your question makes no sense because this is not a Resume/CV

Don't try to evade the question, but answer it - Do you have a Conflict of interest ? - Arjayay (talk) 18:58, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

i don't have a conflict of interest, however, what you are doing is not right, that is all !

References

Notability

• this should be more than enough as the professor is a Member of higher committee of promotion of professors and Assistant professors of cardiovascular diseases and Critical care Subspecialty in Egypt ( Supreme council of Egyptian universities), "6. The person has held a highest-level elected or appointed academic post at a major academic institution or major academic society."

• among the high number of Citations of the professor (which is a main measure of notability, check Google Scholar's page) "The most typical way of satisfying Criterion 1 is to show that the academic has been an author of highly cited academic work – either several extremely highly cited scholarly publications or a substantial number of scholarly publications with significant citation rates." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.205.6.111 (talk) 20:54, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

References