Talk:Alyssa Soebandono

Category:Indonesian Muslims

I find it better to have this discussion here than in user talk pages.

• Here is a link to my explanation to Red Icarus on their user talk page prior to my removal of the category here.

• Here is the answer Red Icarus gave in my user talk page prior to reinserting the category here.

@Red Icarus of Jakarta: Your answer leads me to conclude that either you have not read any of the Wikipedia guidelines I linked to in my explanation in your user talk page, or that you choose to ignore them. Most of your arguments are original research, not supported by any reliable sources. Even if you can point to other pages where the same error exists, that does not give you any right to disregard Wikipedia rules. I see that you also have been adviced earlier here about useful Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Please do read at least Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources, Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons and Wikipedia:No original research.

By the way, your comments about administrators show me that you do not understand the role of administrators or how Wikipedia actually works. More to learn...

I maintain that the category should not be added to the article. Unless you are willing to discuss this based on Wikipedia policies and guidelines, we will have to continue with some form of dispute resolution. I do not take part in edit wars, so I will not remove the category again for now, but I would advice you to show good faith by removing it yourself until you can get support for its inclusion. Regards! --T*U (talk) 20:56, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

@Red Icarus of Jakarta: It is more than a month since I reminded you in your talk page that I expected a response here. I see no reason to wait any longer.

Please read WP:BLPCAT. It is part of the Wikipedia policy for biographies of living persons. There you can read: "Categories regarding religious beliefs (or lack of such) or sexual orientation should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief or orientation in question, and the subject's beliefs or sexual orientation are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources." I will now remove the category. --T*U (talk) 16:14, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep or remove Category:Indonesian Muslims

As a hijab is an authentically Muslim clothing, in my opinion it is a good source for listing her on Category:Indonesian Muslims. It is very simple knowledge that any woman who wears or sometimes wears the hijab is a Muslim. Plus as Indonesia is a Muslim country you will see women wearing them as in any Muslim community. And the Indonesian Wikipedia states she is Muslim. But a T*U however has stated that these reasons for keeping her are very poor sources for putting her on Category:Indonesian Muslims. Below all these sentences users can debate by putting keep Category:Indonesian Muslims or remove Category:Indonesian Muslims on an article for discussion which can solve the edit war between me and T*U and also me and T*U will keep out of the discussion to avoid further conflict. Any other users are more than welcome to start debating below this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Red Icarus of Jakarta (talk • contribs) 05:30, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

@Red Icarus of Jakarta: You seem to have no understanding about how Wikipedia works. But since you obviously want to solve this dispute, I will start a formal procedure of asking for a third opinion. But please, please, when I (or anyone else) link you Wikipedia policies and guidelines, will you please try to read and try to understand those guidelines. It is a great help when everyone follows the same rules.--T*U (talk) 14:16, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

• 3O request @TU-nor: requested a third opinion here. Red Icarus of Jakarta, while it might in general be true that people who wear hijabs are Muslims, Wikipedia requires facts we include to be verifiable, particularly when they concern living people. We cannot add that category without a reliable source calling her a Muslim, preferably on in which she self-identifies as a Muslim. Vanamonde (talk) 15:02, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Category:Indonesian Muslims – again

@Red Icarus of Jakarta: Please show that you are able to learn a little bit about how Wikipedia works:

1. If you really want to have more opinions about your adding of the category, please make a formal "Request for comment" as described here.
2. Please, please learn how to sign your talk page messages. You can read about it here.
3. And finally: Read the relevant WP guidelines before you start discussing, e.g. WP:V, WP:RS, WP:BLP and WP:OR. Every discussion should be based on Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.

And please keep the discussion here on this talk page. --T*U (talk) 19:13, 10 October 2016 (UTC)