Talk:Amazonotrema

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen (talk) 18:57, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that the lichen genus Amazonotrema is named for the Amazon basin region in which the type species was first found? Source: Kalb, Klaus (2009). "New taxa and new records of thelotremoid Graphidaceae" (PDF). Herzogia. 22: 17–24. (see page 18)
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Never Been Seen
  • Comment: still working through a backlog of old reviews

Created by MeegsC (talk). Self-nominated at 10:17, 26 November 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:
• Other problems: - Not sure if it is hooky enough.

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns. Sources are probably fine, but main ones list the discoverers as authors. So not really secondary sources? —Caorongjin 💬 01:29, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that the sole species in the lichen genus Amazonotrema grows partially into the upper layers of the plants on which it lives?Source: Kalb, Klaus (2009). "New taxa and new records of thelotremoid Graphidaceae" (PDF). Herzogia. 22: 17–24. (see page 18)

Caorongjin, is ALT1 any more "interesting"? MeegsC (talk) 16:04, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

MeegsC, marginally so? Sorry, I’m still not sure it’s interesting to a broad audience. —Caorongjin 💬 21:41, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Caorongjin, I guess you need to either accept or reject this submission. I've made suggestions and you've dinged both of them. But we can't just leave this in limbo forever. It's disappointing to me that you don't consider these "interesting" enough (particularly given some of the other DYKs that regularly run), but I guess that's the luck of the draw with reviewers! MeegsC (talk) 16:10, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

MeegsC, I am assessing based on WP:DYKCRIT (which, I see, has recently changed). I can’t arbitrarily speak about other hooks. Your two hooks, from my layman’s perspective, are 1) it got its name from where it was found and 2) it grows high. Are you saying that the hooks are “likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest”? This isn’t apparent to me. —Caorongjin 💬 20:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Caorongjin, actually, you've misinterpreted the latter hook, which shows perhaps that it was not particularly well-written. It actually grows INTO the tree's tissues, living among its cells, which most lichens don't do. Most live on the surface of whatever substrate they live on. Perhaps ALT2: "... that the sole species of the lichen genus Amazonotrema lives partially immersed in the tree bark on which it typically grows?" If that doesn't meet your approval, then I guess you should just reject this nomination and we'll be done with it. ;) MeegsC (talk) 21:20, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

MeegsC that is intriguing (and was not clear in ALT1). I have two qualms with ALT2 though. 1) From a lay reading, "immersed" isn't clear as it invokes the image of liquid. 2) I'm not a specialist in this area, but can't find in the reference where it actually says this? Can you clarify? —Caorongjin 💬 11:05, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Caorongjin How about ALT3: "...that the sole species in the lichen genus Amazonotrema lives partially among the cells of the tree bark on which it typically grows?" The source says that the lichen is endophloeodal. That's a fancy lichenology word that means "thallus immersed in tree bark". (See ref at linked glossary, if you need a ref for that definition.) Lichenologists use the term "immersed" to mean "engulfed" or "absorbed", I guess! MeegsC (talk) 11:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

MeegsC May I suggest an ALT4: "... that while most lichens that grow on plants live on the surface, the sole species in the genus Amazonotrema grows partially among the cells of the tree bark on which it lives?" Source: Kalb, Klaus (2009). "New taxa and new records of thelotremoid Graphidaceae" (PDF). Herzogia. 22: 17–24. (see page 18) —Caorongjin 💬 23:32, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Caorongjin, that works for me. I've made "lichen" plural (i.e. lichens) and changed your "into the cells" to "among the cells" for clarity. It doesn't penetrate the cells (ie. doesn't grow into them), it grows between them. Does that work for you? MeegsC (talk) 23:44, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

I think ALT4 with your modifications is the hookiest! Thanks. —Caorongjin 💬 00:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Caorongjin, for being willing to work with me to find a better hook. MeegsC (talk) 08:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

No problem. Glad it worked out.—Caorongjin 💬 09:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

@MeegsC: @Caorongjin: Agree that ALT4 seems nice, but it appears the facts explained in the hook are not adequately reflected within the article itself. Could the article be updated accordingly? Cielquiparle (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

@MeegsC and Caorongjin: Yes, whatCielquiparle said above ^. I or someone else can promote if this gets fixed. Bruxton (talk) 18:40, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

@Cielquiparle and Bruxton:, do my additions to the article suffice? MeegsC (talk) 18:29, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

@MeegsC, Caorongjin, and Bruxton: Thanks MeegsC. Unfortunately, to me it still isn't quite clear enough – I think the correlation between the hook and the fact cited in the article needs to be a bit more explicit and obvious to the lay reader (and not require too much additional logic to parse). (But others may disagree.) Cielquiparle (talk) 01:34, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Cielquiparle, can you please be more explicit about which part you're not understanding? The technical term is defined, so I'm not sure where the problem is! MeegsC (talk) 09:05, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

MeegsC Is this the sentence that explains the hook? It's the first part of the hook that to me isn't clearly explained, except paranthetically, which is confusing. (To be fair, I have zero knowledge in this field...but I feel like the hook is very accessible and compelling...and for me, it's taking too many logical jumps to map it to a corresponding sentence.) Like many tropical, crustose lichens (but unlike most plant-dwelling lichens),[5] Amazonatrema nigrum is endophloeodal, partially immersed into the bark or stems on which it grows.[3] Cielquiparle (talk) 09:14, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Cielquiparle, can you please check it now and let me know if you're finding it easier to parse? MeegsC (talk) 12:51, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Approving ALT4. Thanks MeegsC for making it clearer in the article. Cielquiparle (talk) 13:24, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

To Prep 6