Talk:American Born Chinese (graphic novel)

Spoilers

This really needs a spoiler alert in the analysis section. I was looking forward to being surprised by how the stories fit together, but I accidentally found out by reading the Analysis section of this Wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maurajbo (talk • contribs) 16:52, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

the first graphic novel to win a major literary award

Should this line be in the description? Art Spiegelman's Maus won the Pulitzer in 1992.

--209.12.46.2 13:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Christian underpinnings

How about inserting some text or even a section discussion the Christian underpinnings in this book? Although I don't know if there are any reliable sources on this though. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 14:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Christian underpinnings? Did I miss something when I read it? I don't recall anything resembling religious themes in the story. Lindentree 17:22, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, definitely Christian underpinnings. The most blatant Christian theme in the book was that Gene Yang replaced Buddha with the character "Tze-Yo-Tzuh" who looks like Moses, and who said, "I was, I am, and I shall forever be" - that's similar to the Christian God who said, "I am the alpha and the omega." Take a look at this[1]. Gene Yang talks about how he replaced the Buddhist underpinnings in Journey To The West with Christian underpinnings. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 18:01, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention the three packages that the monk had to deliver to the place where the bright shining star was. The Monkey King and the two other disciples of that monk were obviously supposed to be the Three Wise Kings, and they were delivering their gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh to baby Jesus, as evidenced by an illustration on page 215. Sincerely, Thrashmeister {U|T|C} 14:18, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

He also implied via imagery that the Journey to the West was a journey to see Christ. I imagine this is highly offensive to some, since it basically implies that the Monkey King became civilized by converting to Christianity (and, by extension, suggests that the way to be a good Chinese is by being Christian). I haven't encountered any criticism of the book for the assimilationist tone, though. It should definitely be mentioned if someone notable writes on it. Buspar 22:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Found a New York Times review that mentions it, though not disparagingly: [2] (Scroll down). Someone should add those. Buspar 22:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

More

http://www.firstsecondbooks.com/reviews/reviewsABC.html

This shows a bunch of reviews WhisperToMe (talk) 06:34, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Resources for further research/editing

This article is quite lacking in research. Here is a short list of some potential articles that can back up some of the claims made here.

Bosman, Julie. "National Book Award Finalists Chosen."New York Times [New York] 12 Oct 2006, E2. Web. 4 Mar. 2012.

Bush, Elizabeth. "American Born Chinese (Review)."Bulletin of the Center for Children's Books. 60.3 (2006): 152-53. Web. 4 Mar. 2012.

Chaney, Michael A. "Animal Subjects of the Graphic Novel."College Literature. 38.3 (2011): 129. Web. 4 Mar. 2012.

Davis, Rocio G.. "Gene Luen Yang's American Born Chinese: Challenging the Comic Stereotype."Graphic Subjects: Critical Essays on Autobiography and Graphic Novels. Ed. Michael A. Chaney. Madison: U of Wisconsin P, 2011. 279-82. Print.

Gomes, Cheryl. "Navigating through Social Norms, Negotiating Place: How American Born Chinese Motivates Struggling Learners." English Journal. 100.2 (2010): 68. Web. 4 Mar. 2012.

Morton, Paul. "The Millions Interview: Gene Luen Yang."Millions. 08 Jul 2010: n. page. Web. 4 Mar. 2012.

Pearson, J. Stephen. "The Monkey King in the American Canon: Patricia Chao and Gerald Vizenor's Use of an Iconic Chinese Character." Comparative Literature Studies. 43.3 (2006): 355-74. Web. 4 Mar. 2012.

Song, Min Hyoung. ""How good it is to be a monkey": comics, racial formation, and American Born Chinese." Mosaic (Winnipeg). 43.1 (2010): 73. Web. 4 Mar. 2012.

Tan, Shaun. "The Accidental Graphic Novelist." Bookbird: A Journal of International Children's Literature. 49.4 (2011): 1-9. Web. 4 Mar. 2012.

Woo, Celestine. "Toward a Poetics of Asian American Fantasy: Laurence Yep's Construction of a Bicultural Mythology." Lion and the Unicorn. 30.2 (2006): 250-64. Web. 4 Mar. 2012. Kida5887 (talk) 17:55, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Outline for an Article Overhaul

Here are my ideas for a major overhaul of this article. Mainly, I am going to stick with the sections that are here and make them better. There is so much written here that isn't cited and/or contains opinions and criticism that I feel obligated to focus on that before adding new material.

• Introduction
  • Find sources of the awards--cite
• Background
  • Change the title to something more fitting
  • Cite info about Journey to the West
  • Edit the writing for clarity and unnecessary language/opinion
  • Cut reference to Oliphant High School--relocate to different/new section
• Character List
  • Edit descriptions for Clarity and Accuracy
• Plot
  • Sweet Lord. The plot is a mess. I'm mainly going to focus on cutting opinion/interpretation
• Themes
  • I'm going to cut everything in this section and only use themes discussed in credible sources of literary criticism
• References
  • Add the references that I have used

I am also going to add links to any of the sections I edit. Kida5887 (talk) 06:26, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

I have some sources that might be helpful for you with the awards. Let me know if you need them. Veganchic (talk) 03:40, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

This sounds like an excellent plan! Cleaning up an article can take a lot of work! :) I look forward to reading your improvements! Wadewitz (talk) 18:03, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Feedback I think you definitely have the right idea and I'm glad to read that you understand that rampant speculation and overly detail plot synopses are inappropriate on Wikipedia. In regard to themes, you can also refer to the critical reception of the work: what did reviewers notice? Were there controversies/boycotts/etc.? Has this been compared to other pieces of literature or other works by this author? You are definitely correct that the thematic content has to be sourced, and I think you'll notice that as you begin discussing what reviewers have said about this work, you will find themes within their reviews. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:41, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

It threw me off a little bit to see the Character list before the plot summary, especially with the character list being so detailed. It flustered me to read about "Character does this and this" and I haven't heard about the story. I would switch the position of the two. I would also shorten the summary a little bit, as said in class, the summary shouldn't be the majority of the article. Instead I would expand on the issues of the novel and add more about the controversy (maybe it's own section). Keep writing! LoversSpat (talk) 21:55, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Peer Review I agree with LoverSpat that the summary should probably come before the character list. I think,having read the book already myself, that this is good character list and descriptions. They were concise and there didn't seem to be any opinion or judgmental tone in them, which I had seen in some others. Also, we talked about plot summaries a tiny bit today and the suggestion was to keep it at around two paragraphs. Dr. Wadewitz said that we don't need a point by point retelling of the story. I can imagine that would be a challenge with this complex story line. It is looking good though! Best, Veganchic (talk) 01:22, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

These are excellent suggestions! Wadewitz (talk) 13:53, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks guys, I agree with what you have said about the plot. I was planning on cutting most of it, but haven't got around to it. 134.68.176.151 (talk) 14:28, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Ladies and gentlemen - this plot summary is now much too short. It might have been too long before, but you have now thrown out the baby with the bathwater. You do not have to describe what happens in every paragraph of each story, but you should summarize the major events of each story. Each of the three stories should have at least a substantial paragraph describing the story line. Maybe half, or 2/3 of what used to be there. On your course's talk page, I left a list of several excellent articles about books that you can look at for guidance. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:38, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Character List Missing the Monkey King? And the picking and choosing of spoilers!

Why is it that the character list does not include one of the most important characters, Monkey King? He is talked about in the entries for the other characters, but does not have an entry himself. This seems absurd. Also, I did a recent edit on the character entry of Chin-Kee, adding that he turns out to be the Monkey King in disguise. Why is it that this spoiler was reverted, but all the other spoilers are kept? This is misleading. Someone reading this page for information will receive misinformation; they will miss a major character, and they will assume that Chin-Kee remains as originally presented. This would be a logical assumption on the reader's part, as all other spoilers are shown here. Wikipedia pages are intended to provide information, and this page has a hard time doing just that.

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Requested move 19 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 05:44, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

---

American Born Chinese → American Born Chinese (graphic novel) – Insufficient disambiguation; see American-born Chinese. 162 etc. (talk) 06:33, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom. "American Born Chinese" should either redirect to "American-born Chinese" OR (my preferred option) there should be a disambiguation page at that title. Paintspot Infez (talk) 18:45, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support. Shwcz (talk) 00:16, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support, although it has nothing to do with American-born Chinese, which is not only a different title, with a hyphen and lower-case b, but also gets only a fraction of the pageviews of the graphic novel, so would not be the WP:primary topic. However, we do have American Born Chinese (TV series), which is an identical title that gets more views than the novel. So American Born Chinese is best as a dab page for now. Station1 (talk) 07:11, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support per Station1 and redirect to American-born Chinese (disambiguation). Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:10, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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