Talk:American Idol/Archive 5

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Archive 5

Number of consecutive years as the #1 show?

I am confused by some information in the television ratings section and by information in the entire article. Some sentences say that the show was No. 1 for seven consecutive years (2005-2011). But this article, says that season three was the No. 1 show. [1] and this template for the top U.S. show.[2] But these articles say that season 3 was #1 in the 18-49 demo. [3] [4] So how many years was it the No. 1 show, seven or eight? Sb1990 (talk) 00:38, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

It's #1 for 7 seasons. There are 2 shows every week, Tuesday and Wednesday. For Season 3, the Tuesday show was #1 and the Wednesday show #3, but overall (some kind of averaging of Tuesday and Wednesday numbers) American Idol was #2 after CSI. Note that for Season 4 the Tuesday show as also #1 and Wednesday show also #3, but the averaged number ranked American Idol at #1.

It is, however, #1 for 8 seasons in the 18-49 demo. There are various way of ranking TV shows - the 3 usual ways are by household ratings, total viewers, or the 18-49 demo. Household ratings measure the number of households that watched the show (American Idol was I think #1 for 6 years by this measure), while the 18-49 demo measures only the number of people aged 18-49 who watched the show. The 18-49 demo rating is important for TV network because this rating calculates the advertising rate. In the past the media often reported and ranked TV show by household ratings, nowadays they tend to use total viewers. This page use ranking by total viewers. It's confusing I know, and frankly it is a mess because most people don't understand the differences between these different ratings and make edits which mess everything up in other pages. I suspect the template page mixed up the household ratings and total viewer ranking (because available numbers for many early years are probably household ratings, while those of the later years are probably total viewers numbers), as well as not using an averaged number for American Idol. Hzh (talk) 01:44, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Please stop keep adding names to lead section

The lead section is for important information about the show, not a place to list your favorite idols or judges. There will likely to be more seasons, and they will likely to be more judges, please don't filled up the lead section with names of judges who are just there for a year or two. We only need to mention the original three and the current judges, the details and other judges can go in the Judges and Hosts section. Similarly for contestants, we should try to avoid filling the lead with names. Currently the most important non-winners like Jennifer Hudson and Daughtry are already mentioned, and there is no need to mention others because the list will become endless when everyone start putting their favorites idol's name in there. The latest attempt to put in the contestants' name is just someone putting his or her personal opinion in as to who is important, for example, why was Bo Bice left out and Elliot Yamin put in? Why was Katharine McPhee left out when she is currently successful in TV? Why was Mandisa left out when she is currently one of the former contestants who still sells? Her latest album is actually selling more than Adam Lambert's, David Archuleta's and Elliot Yamin's. This is not a page for fans of particular idol or the personal opinion of anyone, there should be good reason (and good source!) why something should go in the lead section. Hzh (talk) 21:03, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Alumni in the lead section

Would you mind stop putting details in the lead section that has no relevance to paragraph? The paragraph is about how the winners are voted to be so, other contestants are irrelevant. Important contestants like Jennifer Hudson and Daughtry are already mentioned elsewhere in the lead section, they aren't that important to deserved multiple mentions in the lead. You have to justify why others need to be mentioned, and it is entirely arbitrary, you own opinion of why they deserved to be mentioned. Why not for example Mandisa who has curved out a successful career in Christian music, or Bucky Covington in country music, why not Katharine McPhee who is now a successful TV actress? Why would you think that your criteria would be acceptable by all? That fact that you left out Bo Bice who sold more than Elliot Yamin suggests that the list is entirely arbitrary and your own personal opinion. You will find that fans of all the others will want to put their names in the lead section, and you will have a big mess. This place is full of people who want to list every minute details and people who involved in this show. And please stop trying to bring other irrelevant issues into this. What have I been warned about with regard to this issue? Hzh (talk) 19:58, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

First of all, take a look at American Idol alumni album sales. I listed the top-selling artists. For example, Bo Bice has not sold more albums than Elliot Yamin. Also, I see your point and I have a better resolution. Why don't we find a newer source than the one listed as it is old and outdated for where it mentions Jennifer Hudson, Daughtry, Carrie, and Kelly? Adam Lambert, David Archuleta, and Clay Aiken have also become one of the must successful alumni post Idol and are worth mentioning as well. ATC ^{. Talk} 22:23, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by Bo Bice not selling more albums than Elliot because the page clearly shows he does (746,000 for Bo vs 696,000 for Elliott).

The old quote is useful because: 1) it says why Idol is significant as a show compared to other shows, 2) it establishes that contestants from this shows actually become bona fide stars (i.e. it substantiates the previous statement that it "become a recognized springboard for launching the career of many artists as bona fide stars.") That is the important part as far as the show is concerned, not the name of any particular contestant. As far as I can see, no other non-winner has quite achieved the same level of success as Daughtry and Jennifer Hudson. To me, only Clay Aiken has sold enough, and Adam Lambert has achieved the kind of media attention to be called successful, but that is entirely my opinion, and unfortunately for us, our opinions don't count on this issue. This last paragraph is the most important paragraph because it tells us the significance of show in popular culture, but at the moment, someone can delete most of the last paragraph because it has not been substantiate by anyone that they are indeed "bona-fide stars", you are relying on your own opinion which may not be accepted by others. Your or my or opinion don't matter in this issue, other people who aren't fans of the show would feel they can delete that with good reason because the statement is not substantiate by any sourced quote.

You can of course find another suitable quote that does the same thing that gives more up-to-date name. I don't remember a quote that would serve the same purpose, but you are welcome to try. The important thing is that it should be the opinion of someone (or of some significant news outlet or website) worth quoting, or it'll just be the opinion of nobody that others won't accept, and people will starting listing their favorites in the lead section and soon we'll have an entirely lead section full of names, and we then lose sight of what the lead section is for. Hzh (talk) 23:51, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I found a Billboard chart listing and sourced it. Also you are right my bad! I overlooked Bo Bice! I didn't even think he was up there on the top-selling list! Also, I hope that it doesn't become an issue in the lead of listing favorites. I didn't list Kris Allen who is next after Archuleta on the Billboard list because he has not sold that much albums. See what I added so far and I hope the list doesn't increase! ATC ^{. Talk} 01:46, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't see that paragraph staying for long. Since the article gives 24 names, the cut-off point is arbitrary, anyone can add more name, and you'll end up with 24 names and perhaps more. The list doesn't showed what's significant about their airplay or album or single sales and what criteria they use for ranking. Kris Allen was so high up presumably because he had a big hit song, but the list was just another person's idea how it should be ranked, and really don't make much sense (Kellie Pickler did better than Kris Allen in every respect but they still list her lower, and in its older list they had William Hung in there).

I don't know why there is an obsession with putting names in there, the article is about the show, the success of its alumni is only significant as it illustrates the show's impact on the popular culture, that would be only reason why people like Jennifer Hudson and Daughtry are mentioned there. It is NOT a place for fans of particular idol to highlight their favorites. In the old version of the page, we get people putting extensive list of achievements of their favorite idol in their post-idol career, and they completely swamped other more important stuff about the show. This listing of names is not really the purpose of this page, the page should give people an overview and understanding of the show, and its place in popular culture. I prefer the previous quote because no one can deny that non-winners like Daughtry and Jennifer Hudson are important alumni, the difficult arise when you talk about other non-winners like David Archuleta, Kellie Picker or Adam Lambert, because different people can use different criteria, and you can get a different list of names. Hzh (talk) 13:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Well Adam Lambert did become as successful as Daughtry and Jennifer Hudson post the show and are worth mentioning. Kris Allen never became successful post the show. ATC ^{. Talk} 00:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

That, however, is entirely your own opinion. Jennifer Hudson won an Oscar, Adam didn't; Daughtry sold over 6 million albums, Adam only a small fraction of that. Mandisa's last album actually sold more than Adam's, so it can conceivably be argued that Mandisa is more successful now (and will be more successful in the future) if you are only talking about album sales. I would agree that Adam can be considered a star if you consider media buzz, but that isn't how you chose to define success in what you put in the lead section. I have my opinion as to who is or will be successful, but wiki isn't a place for personal opinion, everything that goes in there needs substantiation from independent and acceptable sources. Since the reference given doesn't have a strict criteria for inclusion, 24 names from the reference can in fact go in there, and you have no valid reason to exclude them if someone else (a Kria Allen fan for instance) want to put his Kris' or other people's name in there. You need a better reference than what's currently there. Hzh (talk) 10:03, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, according to American Idol alumni single sales, they list Kelly as #1, Carrie as #2, Daughtry as #3, Jordin Sparks as #4, and Adam Lambert as #5 which means Lambert is credible to list in the lead. ATC ^{. Talk} 23:56, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Again, this is your opinion. Based on singles sales Adam is way behind Jordin Sparks who sold over 10 milllion, he is on the next block of artists selling 3-5 million copies which include Kellie Pickler and Kris Allen. And why singles sale? Why not radio play? Why not career in TV, films and theatre? Why not streaming media? You can have a different list depending on your criteria. It is not for us to pick and choose what we want, wiki is not a place for our personal opinion. Hzh (talk) 13:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Just noting that the sentence has now been replaced by a quote which is more appropriate. Hzh (talk) 11:08, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

page structure

If anyone wants to make drastic changes to the structure of the page, please discuss it first. WP:MOSTV appears to be primarily about scripted shows, as far as I can see, not reality or competition shows. I can see there is a need to redo the page because it is getting bloated, perhaps moving some stuff away to elsewhere. In general, I think it looks bad to start a page on a TV show with a table after the lead. Hzh (talk) 20:56, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I do think the season summary table is superfluous. Either you have the summary table, or you have the season synopses, there is no need for both. At the moment the season synopses section gives more information (so more useful), and so the summary table should be deleted. Perhaps in the future when you get so many seasons that the article get so big that it becomes a big problem for many users, then the summary table can replace the season synopses because that will make the article smaller. Hzh (talk) 11:00, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Why mention academy awards under awards. American Idol is a singing show not acting show. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.154.240.4 (talk) 19:04, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

7 consecutive #1 in TV ratings

Please don't change the information given in the lead section on #1 for 7 consecutive seasons. American Idol is only #1 in season 2003/2004 for the Tuesday episode. It is not #1 for the show as a whole that season. It doesn't make sense to say it's #1 for 8 consecutive seasons because if you consider the performance and result shows separately, then it is 6 #1 for the performance show and 2 #1 for the result shows (and they are not consecutive). Hzh (talk) 09:48, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Hzh, I referred to your edits as careless because first you came to the article as well as my user talk page stating that I didn't support my edits with a source when I absolutely did, then you reverted my talkpage which is against Wikipedia policy. I've done numerous searches on how many seasons American Idol was the most watched show, all of which have explicitly stated an "8 year streak"; yours, however, which reads like a blog and has "chatter opinions" on it remains the odd man out. Contesting the nature of "one" of my sources doesn't change the fact that there are yet numerous other sources I've provided which also state 8 years. And by the way, there are more sources where that came from, I just chose not to completely clog the page with abounding sources as it seems you're the only person that needs such validation. To state 7 years would make the information in question "outdated" as the show has surpassed a 7 year long streak. Also, nobody has stated that the show is a game show, but a reality game show. There's a difference and it's what American Idol is classified as. Also, I highly suggest you not revert again otherwise you will be in violation of the three-revert rule.AmericanDad86 (talk) 14:48, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I have already explained to you in my message to why it is not valid to say 8 consecutive years, you need a better source that actually deal with this. The sources you gave are citing the NBC press releases bragging about its win (and please don't give so many sources which came from one same source), its not an independent source. What's claimed is vague enough not to make the distinction between a part of the show, and the whole show. This article is about the whole show, not just the performance or the result shows, and American Idol is not #1 for 8 consecutive season for the whole show. This is the issue you must address.

It is completely wrong to say that American Idol is a game show, it is not, reality or otherwise. It is a competition. Read the title of the section, it says competition/game show, not game show. American Idol was nominated in Emmy as reality-competition show, not as a reality game show. You have nothing to support your claim. Hzh (talk) 15:14, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Emmy in fact makes the difference quite clear, it has separate categories for game and competition shows - Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Game/Audience Participation Show and Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Reality-Competition Program; and a separate award for their host - Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Game Show Host, Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Host for a Reality or Reality-Competition Program. Game show and reality-competition are two different genres. Hzh (talk) 15:28, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

There's no more risk of violating 3RR. The page has been fully protected while you two hash this out. Enjoy! --McDoobAU93 17:04, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

There hasn't been any 3RR by me, the reverts were actually over 24 hours.

Just to add a number of references that give an accurate count - article written at start of season 9 and it's 5 consecutive years at the top after season 8. Here after season 9, it gives 6 consecutive years, breaking the record of All in the Family and Cosby Show. Its run of 7 consecutive seasons at the top ends in 2011 (i.e. after season 10), given here. That's the accurate count given for a number of years, not just one single year.

Also adding to show why press releases are unreliable, according to this Fox claimed American Idol was #1 in in total viewers, 18-49 year-olds and teens for the 2011-2012 season, which is untrue. Hzh (talk) 18:00, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

My response to everyone: Since Neilsen ranks the days separately, I think would should also like we do on the table below. I think a good compromise would be to stay it was the #1 show for the "x" years with a provided source and then in parentheses which years were for the performance shows and which were for the results shows or to say the performance shows were the #1 show for "x" years and the results shows were the #1 show for "y" years. As for the game show/non-game show, I think it should go back to what it was before the dispute until there has been more discussion here to reach a consensus. It is something I can see both sides, but would like more evidence/discussion before I would give my opinion in the matter. Aspects (talk) 05:26, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I think the lead section should be both succinct and accurate, so I don't think it is a good idea to give separate number for performance and result shows there. Even though it wouldn't be my choice, if the 8 seasons as #1 instead of 7 is to be used, then it should be stated something like "American Idol had been #1 for either the performance or result show for 8 consecutive seasons". Further explanations can be given in the TV ratings section. Hzh (talk) 11:43, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Aspects, thanks but your suggestion is far too complicated. I like Hzh's idea better. It's got to be either one or the other with specification to the show's episode type in question. As HzH said, who has reliable experience with editing this article and steering away vandalism, we need to avoid any direction towards a prolix opening at all costs. We've got to make this article short and sweet as possible. "Reality game show" should be written as "reality competition show" is the first order of business. I think HzH and I have reached a consensus on this. I think the only thing left to hash out here pertains to 7 or 8 really. HzH, as experienced as you may be in editing this article, I for one think you are way off with your whole 7 argument and have been way too technical. Moreover, you've been assuming NBC has been using some sort of ploy to making themselves look grand with the ratings, despite numerous sources unrelated to NBC also stating its 8. Further, to make such a claim, you'd need a source. Right now, I have sources up the kazoo that state "8 year streak" without pointing out any of these technicalities and ploys you claim. AmericanDad86 (talk) 22:47, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

I have already given reasons why the figure may be inaccurate. If you find numerous sources that says "8 year streak", that would be because that is what's said in the NBC press releases, it's only one source according to wiki rule, and an unreliable one at that. As already mentioned, press releases are unreliable, we find press releases that say all kind of things, a lot of it dubious because they can fudge the issue. Fox had released many press releases trumpeting the achievement of American Idol in the past, but those aren't used here, because they are not considered reliable. In this instance, the only press release that would be considered reliable would be one from Nielsen.

I have already shown that the sources for the count come from multiple years - after Season 8, it's 5 consecutive win here; after Season 9 it's 6 consecutive win - here; and after season 10, it's 7 consecutive years - here and here. Saying 7 consecutive years is only being consistent. Given that we can explain it in further detail in the ratings section, using 8 consecutive seasons is only acceptable if what's said in the lead accurately reflects what the situation is. Hzh (talk) 12:14, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Impact on TV

Would the person who keeps putting his or her opinion on the show stop doing that? You are required to read and write what written in the sources, not put your own opinion and ignore what said in the sources. Hzh (talk) 12:12, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Is this reliable?

Before posting this onto the American Idol pages is this a reliable source to confirm Dr. Luke, Jennifer Lopez and Keith Urban will be the 2014 panel? Link: http://www.eonline.com/news/452130/dr-luke-officially-joining-american-idol-as-third-judge — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.214.103 (talk) 03:33, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Eonline is the same one that reported Jennifer Hudson had signed on as a judge here, which it is now not reporting as true, so it doesn't exactly have a good track record for being correct. That said, we don't know if this true or not, because we haven't had official announcement yet, so just wait util there is an official announcement which should come soon. Hzh (talk) 08:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2014

How many times do I have to tell you? American Idol (Season 13) will be the 1st time in 13 years to say the "Treasure Of Rainbow Beard's Motto" and sing the "I Wish" song, from the "Care Bears Big Wish Movie" in television history! So, could you please put the "Treasure Of Rainbow Beard's Motto" and the song, "I Wish," from the "Care Bears Big Wish Movie," please! 174.91.9.135 (talk) 20:23, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

 Not done The request must be of the form "please change X to Y". Widr (talk) 21:20, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2014

I noticed that you deleted the Barney/Care Bears version of American Idol, but can you please type the season in a more specific manner? Thank you! 174.91.9.135 (talk) 20:25, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

 Not done The request must be of the form "please change X to Y". Widr (talk) 21:21, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2014

How many times do I have to tell you? American Idol (Season 13) will be the 1st time in 13 years to say the "Treasure Of Rainbow Beard's Motto" and sing the "I Wish" song, from the "Care Bears Big Wish Movie" in television history! So, could you please put the "Treasure Of Rainbow Beard's Motto" and the song, "I Wish," from the "Care Bears Big Wish Movie," please!

Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2014

I noticed that you deleted the Barney/Care Bears version of American Idol, but can you please type the season in a more specific manner? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.148.91.94 (talk) 00:29, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2014

I keep on telling you that American Idol (Season 13) will be the 1st time in 13 years to say the "Treasure Of Rainbow Beard's Motto" and sing the "I Wish" song, from the "Care Bears Big Wish Movie" in television history! So, could you please put the "Treasure Of Rainbow Beard's Motto" and the song, "I Wish," from the "Care Bears Big Wish Movie," please! 173.206.65.59 (talk) 23:42, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 00:48, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2014

I noticed that you deleted the Barney/Care Bears version of American Idol, but can you please type the season in a more specific manner? Thank you!

Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 00:48, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2014

Right now, for the first time in 13 years, it'll be the only season to have a Barney & Friends/Care Bears Theme (that's the Treasure Of Rainbow Beard's Motto and I Wish). So I ask you again, please put the directors Jim Rowley, Larry Jacobs, and Ron Pitts, the musical directors Joseph K. Phillips and Derek Brinn, and executive producers Sheryl Stamps Leach, Kathy O'Rourke Parker, and Dennis DeShazer. Thank you! 174.91.11.248 (talk) 20:46, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sam Sailor ^Sing 21:07, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2014

Please change "His performance of Live's version of "I Walk the Line" was well received by the judges but later criticized in some quarters for not crediting the arrangement to Live." to "His performance of Johnny Cash's" "I Walk the Line" was well received by the judges." 50.139.67.191 (talk) 00:23, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 01:20, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Infobox photo

Since this is a page that covers the full span of 13 years, it is not a good idea to have the logo of the 13th season as a main logo. We should use a more generic logo common to or more similar to the general logo used throughout the years of the show, and use the present "XIII" logo as an "alternative" further down the article. In fact, it's better not to use the present logo on the main page at all but rather on the 13th season page instead. werldwayd (talk) 23:58, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

My genuine concerns above have not been addressed at all. The present logo is not representative of the program spanning 13 seasons at all and is misleading. If no response is received on talk here, I will replace the one in the main American Idol page with a more generic logo applicable to all seasons. werldwayd (talk) 03:37, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

There is no generic logo applicable to all seasons. They have changed over the years. Hzh (talk) 10:20, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Name of program

Even more serious is dubbing it "Also known as American Idol: The Search for a Superstar (season 1) - American Idol XIII (season 13)". This is a global series page and the series is not known by the name at all. This is so misleading and we should reconsider this dubious naming and removing it from the infobox talking about 13 years of history of Idol. If you want to explain the difference between this year and all the other 12 years, do that in a subsection below, not on the top of the page. Plus even more strange, that we are highlighting this supposed name here, yet on American Idol (season 13) where it should have been theeeee big news, nothing is mentioned about this renaming in the intro or in infobox of that page. Something is real wrong here. werldwayd (talk) 00:02, 27 March 2014 (UTC) werldwayd (talk) 00:26, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

My genuine concerns above have not been addressed at all. The series American Idol is not known as "American Idol: The Search for a Superstar (season 1)" It's just known as American Idol. I don't know how a slogan not used even on season 13 we are talking about has taken a place at top of our article about a program spanning 13 seasons. The 13-season program is known as American Idol. Even season 13 does not use it as we allege. If there is no further response whatsoever to my concerns, I will remove all notification in infobox about the so-called "The Search for a Superstar (season 1)". werldwayd (talk) 03:44, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

"American Idol: The Search for a Superstar" was the first season's title, it's the reason why it's worth mentioning. It's mentioned anyway in the history section, so whether it is mentioned in the infobox is not that important.Hzh (talk) 10:25, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't know who added "American Idol XIII (season 13)" to the infobox, but that doesn't belong on this article. But, American Idol: The Search for a Superstar was the actual full title of the series -- in the first season (as it says - notice the italics), and it does belong in "Also known as". If we removed that then we would also have to remove others (Brian Dunkleman, etc.) that only pertain to the first season. --Musdan77 (talk) 22:28, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it is a good idea to list all different names of individual season, although a special case can be made for the first season, it's arguable whether it is the title of the series or not. The title was shortened, and I don't think anyone used the full title after season 1. Doesn't matter either way to me. Hzh (talk) 23:13, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I think we're in agreement. There's only one season that had a different title from the others -- and that's because they decided to drop the post-colon part from season one's. --Musdan77 (talk) 01:18, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Ratings section

The ratings section mentions that Idol broke a record formerly held by All in the Family and The Cosby Show by being the highest rated show for a 6th year in a row in Season 9, but I'm pretty sure this actually occurred in Season 8. Season 9 would have been the 7th time and Season 10 was the 8th and final time. I would fix it myself but I wanted to make sure I didn't read or count wrong or something. MarkMc1990 (talk) 01:48, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

It's been discussed before here. Season 3 was #1 if you consider Tuesday and Wednesday episode separately, #2 if you consider the show as a whole. You can put in 6th consecutive #1 by season 8 if you wish, just make sure that you word it correctly and properly sourced. Hzh (talk) 09:01, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh ok, I see now. I'm jsut curious because I don't really understand how this ratings stuff works (terrible because I was a marketing major) but how is it possible for the Tuesday show to be the most watched program by itself but the Wednesday show factored in causes it to lose that distinction overall? Do Wednesdays ratings bring down the "average" between the two or something?

Yes, once you averaged the numbers, it gets somewhere in the middle of the two numbers (not exactly middle because Tuesday and Wednesday shows are not of the same length). In both Season 3 and 4, the Tuesday episode was #1, the Wednesday episode was #3. It just so happens that in Season 3 once you average the viewing figures, the average number is lower than the #2 show which was CSI, but higher in season 4.
The ratings system is in fact a bit of a mess, because of the way the news outlets chose to report the ratings changes over the years. In the past they preferred to use household ratings, then they chose total number of viewers, now they are slowly moving to 18/49 demo. Which is fine, but they don't always report all the different numbers. So depending on which method they use, the ranking can change, which makes it difficult to compare TV ranking across the ages. The numbers using the same method can also change depending on what others adjustment they make. Hzh (talk) 18:47, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2014

Please put the "Treasure Of Rainbow Beard's Motto" and the song "I Wish," from the Care Bears Big Wish Movie for the 13th Season of American Idol. Once more, and it will be the only way to make things right and the thing that you need to succeed in this world, and "go back onstage and make sure that you guys are all in the same place." 174.95.203.208 (talk) 15:44, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 18:30, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2014

Add seasons for the judges and producers and hosts, the years might confuse some people. It confuses me, which is why i think it'd be easier to add seasons instead of years. 108.206.221.5 (talk) 17:19, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done: The "Judges and hosts" section has a color-coded table with season tenures for the judges and hosts. I can see how the years can be confusing for the directors, but I think we should establish a consensus to change it first, since it is in the infobox. Some people may find the years helpful. Best, Mz7 (talk) 20:28, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

American Idol trivia attribution notice

Material from American Idol trivia was merged to American Idol on 24 March 2006 but no longer constitutes any part of the article. Per WP:MAD#Record authorship and delete history, I am listing the users that contributed to that article. They are: Chanlyn (creator; 17:58, 29 January 2006), CrazyC83 (4 edits from 21:35, 29 January 2006 – 23:50, 23 February 2006), 68.92.196.232 (2 edits from 23:50, 11 February 2006‎ - ‎23:51, 11 February 2006), 71.241.144.161 (04:20, 18 February 2006), Zpb52 (01:47, 18 March 2006), RG2 (merger; 19:29, 24 March 2006). For more information, please see the deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 June 1#American Idol trivia. Thanks, Tavix | Talk  21:19, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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"Goodnight America... for now"

A rhetorical question: Will the show actually be returning? Content should probably be added about this, per sources like this and this. Seacrest ended the finale episode by saying, "And one more time, we say to you from Hollywood, goodnight America... for now." And Simon Fuller said in an interview, "Idol will certainly be coming back for sure" and similar comments. Reading between the lines, though, this all may simply mean that Fuller wants to create a completely new show that improves on the old show? Dirroli (talk) 23:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

The show may possibly return, although I'd expect that Fox might revive X-Factor first. However, speculation on whether it will return or not is not really appropriate for the article unless there are clearer foundation for such discussion per WP:CRYSTAL. At the moment it is not clear if what Fuller plans to do would be a direct continuation of Idol or something entirely different but based on Idol, and we have no idea what the intention of Fox might be. If it is something new even if derived from Idol, then it would have no true relevance to this article, and such speculation would not be appropriate. If there are clearer indications from Fox, then it may be worth adding. Hzh (talk) 02:23, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

I've added the Seacrest quote in the Season 15 section, which is appropriate for that section. However it should be left as just that, any speculations about the show's future should be left until we have further information. Hzh (talk) 15:31, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Proposing new Judges timeline

The current table is hard to read. Im prosing the follow:

Judges timeline
Judge	Seasons
	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15
Paula Abdul	colspan=8 style="background:#9EFF9E;color:black;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center;" class="table-yes"	colspan=7 data-sort-value="" style="background: var(--background-color-interactive, #ececec); color: var(--color-base, inherit); vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; " class="table-na" |
Simon Cowell	colspan=9 style="background:#9EFF9E;color:black;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center;" class="table-yes"	colspan=6 data-sort-value="" style="background: var(--background-color-interactive, #ececec); color: var(--color-base, inherit); vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; " class="table-na" |
Randy Jackson	colspan=12 style="background:#9EFF9E;color:black;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center;" class="table-yes"	colspan=3 data-sort-value="" style="background: var(--background-color-interactive, #ececec); color: var(--color-base, inherit); vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; " class="table-na" |
Kara DioGuardi								colspan=2 style="background:#9EFF9E;color:black;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center;" class="table-yes"	colspan=6 data-sort-value="" style="background: var(--background-color-interactive, #ececec); color: var(--color-base, inherit); vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; " class="table-na" |
Ellen DeGeneres									colspan=1 style="background:#9EFF9E;color:black;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center;" class="table-yes"	colspan=6 data-sort-value="" style="background: var(--background-color-interactive, #ececec); color: var(--color-base, inherit); vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; " class="table-na" |
Steven Tyler										colspan=2 style="background:#9EFF9E;color:black;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center;" class="table-yes"	colspan=4 data-sort-value="" style="background: var(--background-color-interactive, #ececec); color: var(--color-base, inherit); vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; " class="table-na" |
Mariah Carey												colspan=1 style="background:#9EFF9E;color:black;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center;" class="table-yes"	colspan=3 data-sort-value="" style="background: var(--background-color-interactive, #ececec); color: var(--color-base, inherit); vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; " class="table-na" |
Nicki Minaj												colspan=1 style="background:#9EFF9E;color:black;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center;" class="table-yes"	colspan=4 data-sort-value="" style="background: var(--background-color-interactive, #ececec); color: var(--color-base, inherit); vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; " class="table-na" |
Jennifer Lopez										colspan=2 style="background:#9EFF9E;color:black;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center;" class="table-yes"	colspan=1 data-sort-value="" style="background: var(--background-color-interactive, #ececec); color: var(--color-base, inherit); vertical-align: middle; text-align: center; " class="table-na" |
Keith Urban
Harry Connick Jr

Its collapsed so the only people that'll see it are those who want to. I believe the information is also easier to access. CCamp2013 (talk) 21:45, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

I like the idea of this even more than the current one:

Judges timeline

or even this one:

Judges timeline

CCamp2013 (talk) 22:47, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Leave it as it is, I'm not sure why there is this obsession with changing the table, there must have been a dozen or more versions of this table already. I would have removed the current table as well, but for the fact that someone will add another one in no time. Yours in any case is ugly (like one in The Voice, which is a page with a ridiculous number of tables), and the current one is small and compact. Hzh (talk) 23:55, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

@Hzh: you also can't read the current table. Its basically useless. Also, it isn't just your decision. This needs to be up for discussion. CCamp2013 (talk) 02:31, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

I can read it perfectly fine, you would need to specify more clearly what your problem with the table is. There had been a number of discussions on various tables in the articles already, for example, here, here and others, also in users talk pages, but it does not make any difference - once in a while someone else will come along and change the table to their own preferred version. I'm simply stating the case for keeping the current one - it is stable, it is small and compact, and it looks good. Strictly speaking we do not need a table, everything has been covered by prose (and prose is the preferred option for article), it is there only because others will add a table regardless. This one is here to stop others wasting time making a new one that would get reverted. Check the past edits and you will see all kinds of judges tables, e.g. [5], [6], [7], and there is no reason why yours should be the only ones under discussion. Hzh (talk) 10:01, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

@Hzh: I'm just saying the dates are confusing. An average visitor won't know what version of the show each judge was on. I prefer the second table I suggested. Its clear and more to what you are going to accept. Why should the year be there instead of the season? What sense does that make? This is the only one I'm now proposing. It exactly like yours and takes up the same amount of space.

Judges timeline

CCamp2013 (talk) 22:59, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Update the Judges Timeline

Could you please update the Judges timeline? The new season started. Please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:401:C400:357:2D4F:2C9D:1998:3685 (talk) 10:08, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

It's already updated. Hzh (talk) 11:15, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2018

Even though the montage and final performance of the eliminated contestant was not used from season 14 onward, some contestants in season 14 or 15 DID have a montage of the contestant's time on the show (like Rayvon and Jax in Season 14). Thank You! 2602:304:5D47:FFD9:7DD8:5F79:A695:C3B6 (talk) 00:17, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 13:42, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Season count after revival

Apparently, ABC is referring to the 16th season of American Idol as their first season and the next as the 17th season of American Idol as their second season like here and here. How should we address this season count reset? Josh (talk) 20:32, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

I'd guess we'll just wait and see. If there are enough sources to indicate that this is how the media describes the ABC show, then it can be changed. The naming was discussed in Talk:American Idol (season 16), but it can always be discussed again. Hzh (talk) 14:46, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

No, sorry. We can't do that. The first season on ABC is ALWAYS going to be the 16th season, and the second on ABC is ALWAYS going to be the 17th. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:401:C400:357:B0A4:9759:ED60:4783 (talk) 21:36, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Table

@ 98.156.51.206 Please avoid adding unnecessary table to the article. More than half of the information there is already given in other tables, and all the other information are clearly given in the text. Wikipedia MOS also favors prose over unnecessary tables per MOS:TABLE. We don't need the same excessive number of table you see in The Voice articles. Also listing only one runner-up is arbitrary since recent finales featured three finalists. Note that numerous tables have been added in the past, and they have been rejected, moreover the one you added is ugly. Hzh (talk) 14:24, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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720p or 1080i?

In Canada, American Idol airs on CTV 2, which broadcasts in 1080i. Does CTV 2 therefore air a 1080i version of American Idol, or does it scale a 720p broadcast to fit in 1080i? What about Hearst Television affiliates, which also use 1080i instead of 720p? --LABcrabs (talk) 07:46, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Color Templates for Results

I saw the new color scheme updates in the American Idol post-ABC era (season 16 onwards) but the pre-FOX era (first 15 seasons) uses only the old color scheme. I was initially having time to edit the articles but I was hit with time constraints, so hopefully if I can find someone to help, or edit requests to help do the pages for the first 15 seasons. So far the color scheme was met with reception it had also be adopted in the SPOP Sing! article held the same year the ABC era began. Thanks. TVSGuy (talk) 10:48, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

There had been discussion in the past and some did not want colors in the results. I have no opinion on that except that I think the colors used from season 16 onward are on the garish side, and don't look good. Maybe consider using more pastel shades of colors so that the pages don't look so strident. Try one article first and see if other people object. Hzh (talk) 11:32, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I See what I can do; if otherwise, then never mind although I may be busy. You can ask BroJam or anyone if can. TVSGuy (talk) 14:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

UPDATE: I have just experimented season one but if any editors like it or not, or if I made a mistake, feel free to edit. TVSGuy (talk) 11:32, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm not sure the color for the eliminated contestants is quite right, also choosing not to color the entire line resulted in some inconsistencies. I'll try and see if I can adjust them later. Hzh (talk) 12:30, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Article for Season 19

When I click on American Idol (season 19), it doesn't take me to the article, but down to the section. Can you please unlock the article for Season 19? Please. It premieres in 3 weeks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:40A:8480:1750:5C8:C8E:AAF7:C7F1 (talk) 18:30, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

I want an article for Season 19, please.

Off Broadway Musical

I added the verifiable fact that there was a short running off Broadway musical based on the show to the Cultural impact:Film and Theater section of the article. @BrickMaster02 has seen fit to delete that without so much as the courtesy of an explanation. If it was not a cultural impact, and was not in the field of Film and Theater, please explain why. Kevin McE (talk) 15:11, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

The section refers to Idol alumni only, not productions loosely based off of alumni. BrickMaster02 (talk) 15:18, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

There is nothing in the section heading, nor any introduction to that section, that sets such a stipulation. In the context of an article about a TV show, 'Cultural impact' means cultural impact of the show. Your justification is by virtue of a criterion that seems to be entirely of your own invention/understanding. Indded, 3 of the seven paragraphs in that section make no reference to any alumnus of the show. Kevin McE (talk) 15:31, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

+1 The existence of a musical send-up is a perfect example of the show's "ripple effect" on the larger cultural landscape. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 19:29, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

A single line mention is good enough for article, I see nothing wrong with it. But please, don't merge the whole article into here. Hzh (talk) 21:30, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

The AfD for Idol:_The_Musical has been closed w/ no consensus. I therefore propose merging the introduction to said article, in whole or in part, to this article in the form of either its own section or as a mention in the Cultural Impact section. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 04:40, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

• Please don't do that. There was no support for your suggestion of adding the introduction there, it'll still be an Oppose from me. Just add a sentence, or a bit more if you really want it, as suggested by another editor: "A 2007 musical, based on the show, called Idol: The Musical, played off-Broadway. The musical closed on its official opening night." Hzh (talk) 07:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

  Even that much would still be considered a "merge." You're getting hung up on the terminology. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 18:26, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

It is not a merge. WP:MERGE is combining two articles into one, therefore it means that you remove (by redirecting) the other article and move all or part of the content here. I'm merely suggesting adding a sentence and a bit here, which you don't need further discussion, because there is already support for it in the discussion above. I'm not interested in doing anything to the other article, start another AfD on that if you are really keen, but it is irrelevant here. Hzh (talk) 18:52, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

So if I redirected the other article, you'd revert that edit? Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 06:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not keeping an eye on the other article, I won't know if you do it. Others might object that you redirect it when an AfD just ended without consensus and there is as yet no consensus here, and what they do is up to them (who knows, they might report you to ANI). Hzh (talk) 08:11, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

TBH, seems like you and I are the only ones w/ an opinion on this. The AfD closer specifically said they would permit the merger discussion to continue. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 16:30, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

• So to sum up the discussion, I will be permitted to add a brief mention of the musical to this article in the context of Idol's larger cultural impact. Likewise, no one objects to redirecting the other article here. Is that correct? Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 17:47, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

You can give a brief mention in this article, but the discussion here gives you no permission to redirect. Hzh (talk) 18:43, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

I thought you said you didn't care what I did w/ the other article. Now it looks like you're trying to set yourself up as the "guardian" of these articles. What's your interest? And at the risk of sounding juvenile, what if I do redirect it? Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 20:47, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't keep an eye on that article, it's irrelevant to me what happened to it, I'm certainly no guardian of any sort on that article. I'm merely stating the simple fact that there is no support for your merge proposal here, therefore you cannot use this discussion to redirect that article. If you do it, you are doing it because you want to do it, regardless of other people's opinion. This needed to be said because if there is a dispute over your redirect, then you cannot use this discussion to support your action. Hzh (talk) 21:04, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Undid the re-direct (or rather, deletion) since there was no consensus on the AFD, and left it up for merge discussion. There are independent sources available, and a previous edit actually deleted a plot summary which gave good (if over detailed) information. Mark E (talk) 23:37, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Tables

Will people who want to change the table please discuss first? We have reasonably stable tables for some time, now every couple of weeks someone wants a new table, and it's back to the situation many years ago when everyone seems to want they own table (and some of them were pretty hideous) and it kept changing. Propose the table you want here, so we can decide which one we might want in the article. Hzh (talk) 20:15, 12 February 2023 (UTC)