Talk:American Jewish Congress

Cleanup

Hi, not sure what the cleanup issue is. Advise please?

Thanks

Well, to begin with, the article is a chronological history. The first paragraph should be a current overview. The article needs to be split up into better catagories. PhatJew 07:04, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

The article doesn't mention the rightward tilt of the agency and the near total erosion of the agency's grassroots, including the seperation of local chapters from the national in Philadelphia, Boston and elsewhere. NJB10011 21:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

In the first section, democratic is written Democratic ( big D) - error?

AJCongress and AJCommittee

I've tried to edit both pages so the reference to the other, similarly named organization is parallelDavid in DC 19:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Israel Singer section

This looks like a BLP problem to me. The info on this AJCongress page is actually much more detailed than on the Israel Singer page. That page looks problematic too, which I'll note there. Anybody have an opinion? David in DC (talk) 21:30, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean. Can you explain the problem? Perhaps it can be improved or corrected if we knew what is at issue. Thanks. Juda S. Engelmayer (talk) 20:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

"the former secretary general of the World Jewish Congress - who left the agency after claims of financial irregularities were levied following an investigation by the New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer[12] and followed up by accusations from WJC founder Edgar Bronfman[13] about alleged theft" suggests the allegations by Spitzer and Bronfman are true. This is unproven. WP:BLP may require a higher level of certainty about the allegations to include them in an artcle about a living person (Singer).

"Jack Rosen, AJCongress' chairman has been accused of keeping the appointment from the agency's board and breaching protocol in doing so..." is unsourced and probably violates WP:BLP as to Rosen.

"At a December 2007 meeting of the Board's Executive Committee, Rosen was put on the spot and challenged by fellow board members who opposed the association with Rabbi Singer..." is unsourced and may violate WP:BLP as to the other board members. David in DC (talk) 20:44, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

It is not unsourced. It is in the Jewish Week article of Jan 18 that is a reference in the Wiki-article. The claims of theft and irregularities are in several articles, including the NY Times. The Wiki entries all say "alleged" and link to established references that back up the statements made. Juda S. Engelmayer (talk) 21:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Henry Siegman

He has been a president of AJC for 16 years and went through numerous controversies. Yet, the article doesn't even mention him. I wonder why. Mhym (talk) 16:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081023050736/http://www.ajcongress.org/site/DocServer/Ms.pdf?docID=1961 to http://www.ajcongress.org/site/DocServer/Ms.pdf?docID=1961

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External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060614001255/http://magnes.org/collections/wjhc.html to http://www.magnes.org/collections/wjhc.html

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Non-neutral section in History

This is pretty non-neutral and unsourced:

"Through its emphasis on human rights for all Americans; on protection by government of the weakest among us; and on a just society based on civil law and the Jewish concept of Tzedek—righteousness—the American Jewish Congress has made its mark to a remarkable degree on American society in general and Jewish well-being in particular."

This should be removed. It doesn't simply state the organization's documented goals or values but instead is trying to ascribe a subjective moral consequence of those goals or values. ClairelyClaire (talk) 02:38, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051222003537/http://www.learncalifornia.org/doc.asp?id=980 to http://www.learncalifornia.org/doc.asp?id=980
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070206061515/http://www.ajcongress.org/site/PageServer to http://www.ajcongress.org/site/PageServer
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061215224715/http://www.ajcongress.org/site/DocServer/Women__2_.pdf?docID=581 to http://www.ajcongress.org/site/DocServer/Women__2_.pdf?docID=581

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Nelson Mandela

@User:Freelance-frank What exactly does "barely mentioned" mean? It certainly means that the AJCongress, AJC, etc are indeed mentioned in the sources that were subsequently removed. And there are multiple sources that mention the role these organizations played in criticizing Mandela. The organization is either mentioned or it is not. The role that Jewish legacy organizations played in regards to apartheid may be unsavory, but if the information is sourced, I see no valid reason for removal. It is concerning to me that Black history is being removed from Wikipedia. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 08:41, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

You ask (rhetorically), "What exactly does 'barely mentioned' mean?" "Barely mentioned" means that, in sources supplied so far, they appear in lists of organizations involved. Some organizational leaders also get quoted. However, organizational heads are mostly quoted to describe what Mandela said, rather than their organizational response. This makes sense because they were the ones in attendance. This means that mention of the organizations themselves is minimal, and most quotes from organizational leaders serve to better characterize Mandela's speech, rather than provide info on the orgs themselves.That is the extent of coverage of any individual organization. This is what "barely mentioned" means.

The reason for removal has to do with due weight, not with unsavory nature. See WP:PROPORTION: "An article should not give undue weight to minor aspects of its subject but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight proportional to its treatment in the body of reliable, published material on the subject. For example, a description of isolated events, quotes, criticisms, or news reports related to one subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic" (emphasis added).

To relate this policy directly to the matter at hand: these organizations are briefly mentioned in these articles, but these articles 1) do not linger on these organizations, and 2) all occur contemporaneously to this event (see the "isolated event" language). In this way, inclusion of this material would be out of proportion to their coverage in reliable sources.

My general outlook: based on sourcing provided, this material is undue for these organizational articles, but probably not for a different page like Nelson Mandela or some general page on the American Jewish community. This is because Mandela and the American Jewish communal response to Mandela are major players in these sources, while the individual component orgs are not.

To improve your argument, I suggest finding additional sources. A plus would be non-contemporaneous coverage. A major plus would be considerable emphasis on a particular organization. Freelance-frank (talk) 11:06, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Side note: This PROPORTION issue also applies to the Rosenberg coverage in Jewish War Veterans of the United States of America, Union for Reform Judaism, Jewish Labor Committee‎, Jewish Council for Public Affairs‎, American Jewish Committee‎, and American Jewish Congress‎. Freelance-frank (talk) 11:12, 29 April 2023 (UTC)