Talk:Amusement Today

Merger proposal

• Merge Golden Ticket Awards to Amusement Today. As far as I can tell from the article, the award doesn't have much notoriety beyond the readership and possibly the amusement park industry. This isn't like the Oscars or even the AVN Awards that gets a lot of outside media coverage - it'll do perfectly fine as a section in this article. --98.204.112.111 (talk) 16:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, these articles should be merged. They are two articles that do not have much information. --CPGACoast (talk) 04:14, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Past winners

If anybody can post the awards prior to 2008 that would be great. I'm having trouble finding the lists prior to 2008, Astros4477 (talk) 18:53, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

File:Golden Ticket Awards.jpg listed for discussion

A file being used in this article, File:Golden Ticket Awards.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:46, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Splitting the article

I am considering to split the article into two: (1998 - 2009) and (2010 - present) in order to reduce article size. Any objections? zsteve21 (talk) 14:18, 26 September 2021. (BST)

What would you call the two articles? The article is about Amusement Today, but the Golden Ticket section is what takes up most of the space. At one time Golden Ticket Awards was a separate article, but that was merged into this page with little discussion. Titling the pages Amusement Today (1998-2009) and Amusement Today (2010-present) makes little sense, as the paper itself has not really changed and what you are wanting to split is the list of awards. Also, before you do any splitting you should take the proper steps, and insert a proper page notice as per WP:SPLIT.—JlACEer (talk) 15:29, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

To Reiterate: Before you do any splitting you should take the proper steps, and insert a proper page notice as per WP:SPLIT—JlACEer (talk) 18:59, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Ok sorry, I thought a consensus was made when you said "before you do any splitting", but I guess not. zsteve21 (talk) 21:47, 28 September 2021. (BST)

Typically, it's a good idea to drop a note at relevant WikiProject talk pages and give it a week or so before committing any changes (unless of course early feedback turns into WP:SNOW). I went ahead and did this at WT:WikiProject Amusement Parks, so let's see if anyone else weighs in here from the project.

In my opinion, it would make sense to fork the Golden Ticket Award lists over to a dedicated list article like List of 2020 Golden Ticket Awards. We would retain the GTA section here with a brief overview/summary, but move the lists into their own separate article for each year, considering annual lists are fairly long. If there are no objections after a few days and someone wants to do the legwork of creating each list article, I can follow-up later and expand the GTA section that remains here in this article. --GoneIn60 (talk) 07:51, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I have already made the article Golden Ticket Awards of Amusement Today before 2010 when I made a bold, but reverted split. I'm wondering why you would split the section by each year rather than in half. zsteve21 (talk) 21:49, 30 September 2021.

Did you read what a list article is on Wikipedia, which I linked to above? If not, see WP:SAL and WP:LISTNAME. If you're going to create a list, then it should generally be titled "List of something". Here, you don't need to have Amusement Today in the title. So List of Golden Ticket Awards is fine.

Once you've figured out a proper title format, the next step is to consider length. These lists are lengthy. Each year contains dozens of entries. Trying to cram a decade into one list article isn't really solving the problem; you're still collapsing multiple years. It would be much simpler to just have one list page for each year. It is more work to begin with, but it would be easier to link to and maintain over time. So that's the logic behind using "List of 2019 Golden Ticket Awards", "List of 2020 Golden Ticket Awards", etc.

Now before you go off doing all that, let's wait to see what the consensus thinks. --GoneIn60 (talk) 10:36, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

I'd support some sort of split between the suggested "List of Golden Ticket Awards" and "Amusement Today". The GTA's will only get longer and longer and crowd up the article. Adog (Talk・Cont) 13:27, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Once the Golden Ticket Award lists are removed, there will be very little left of this article. I'm not sure that splitting by date is the proper way to do this. If you look at other awards such as the Tony Awards, Emmy Awards or Academy Awards, they are all divided by the type of award. We already have some pages dedicated to a specific Golden Ticket Award such as Golden Ticket Award for Best New Roller Coaster and Golden Ticket Award for Best New Ride. Since these pages already exist, then perhaps the awards should be divided by award instead of by date. Personally, however, I prefer to see them listed by date, and I have no problem with long lists. I would leave everything the way it is.

I also have to ask, as other members have, why you, zsteve21, are so concerned with splitting pages? As others have pointed out on your talk page, you are a new editor with less than 200 edits and yet you seem to concentrate on splitting large articles that have been in existence for a long time, and no one else but you seems concerned with the length of these articles.—JlACEer (talk) 14:45, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

The article does have long lists, however, and typically it's preferred to move those to a dedicated list article. How those are split up (by year, by name, by category, etc.) is all up for debate, but I do believe the split needs to happen. Amusement Today has been around for quite some time, so there should be ample coverage in reliable sources, enough so that we should be able to expand this article significantly. I'll start working on that while this discussion is underway.

FYI, I dropped a note at WP:TEA as well asking for some advice from other experienced editors --GoneIn60 (talk) 15:14, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Arbitrary break

• Splitting out the Golden Ticket Awards would be a cleaner solution than splitting by an arbitrary date. Maproom (talk) 09:38, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Appreciate the feedback, Maproom. That would certainly be a good first step in the right direction, but then the Golden Ticket Awards article would be faced with the same dilemma of long, collapsed lists for each year. But I'd take that over keeping everything in the Amusement Today article! Wondering if we can treat it like the film project does with awards, or even something like they do with 2020 in film. I would say at the very least, split it out by decade (if not by year) if we go that route. --GoneIn60 (talk) 18:40, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

• Are the individual awards particularly notable? This all seems referenced back to the subject. Indeed, there isn't much in the way of secondary sources presented in the article to show the magazine is notable either. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:05, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

I haven't had time to attack it yet, but yes the GTAs are referenced in many highly-reputable sources within the amusement park industry. The most reputable parks, manufacturers, and vendors also frequently send representatives to attend the yearly awards ceremony. It's essentially like the Academy Awards for that industry. With some cleanup and source hunting, I have little doubt that this article (and a corresponding GTA article) would both easily pass WP:N. --GoneIn60 (talk) 18:40, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

A quick Google search shows lots of secondary sources for the awards. Most parks that have received an award issue a press release and the local news stations and papers pick it up.—JlACEer (talk) 20:17, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree with the split. Blubabluba9990 (talk) (contribs) 19:52, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Which one? By ticket or by date?—JlACEer (talk) 20:17, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I support the original split proposed by Zsteve21, so the split by date. Blubabluba9990 (talk) (contribs) 21:33, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

There's no need to rush to split the article. WP:HASTE states, quoting: "As browsers have improved, there is no need for haste in splitting an article when it starts getting large. Sometimes an article simply needs to be big to give the subject adequate coverage. If uncertain, or with high profile articles, start a discussion on the talkpage regarding the overall topic structure. Determine whether the topic should be treated as several shorter articles and, if so, how best to organize them. If the discussion makes no progress consider adding one of the split tags in order to get feedback from other editors." Ergzay (talk) 03:49, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

WP:HASTE isn't relevant here for a couple reasons. First, this isn't really a size issue. We are dealing with a content issue. Per MOS:LIST, articles should consist primarily of prose. When an article consists primarily of lists, it should either be converted to a stand-alone list or split/forked into two separate entities: a prose article and a list article. It's already predominantly a list, hence the request to take action, and that's only going to get worse with each passing year as more lists are added.

Second, WP:HASTE is about splitting without discussion and avoiding a rush to judgment based on size alone. Neither point applies. Clearly we're in the midst of a discussion. --GoneIn60 (talk) 07:44, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Second Attempt to split article

I am going to transfer the Golden Ticket Awards section into two articles as stated in the split proposal. However, I am going to keep an 'uncollapsed' copy of the latest year of Golden Ticket Awards (2021) and 'uncollapse' the Publisher's Picks section. On 7th November 2021, if I get a consensus or get no responses, I will take action. zsteve21 (talk) 11:36, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Can you repeat exactly what you are going to name each new article? My understanding is that we will still have the Amusement Today article, as well as one called "List of Golden Ticket Awards". In the new list, it sounds like you will keep the latest year uncollapsed in each category and collapse the rest of the previous years.

Personally, I think that new list would still have the problem of containing too much in one list article, but it's a step in the right direction. Eventually, these will need to be broken out by decade or year, and by year might make the most sense with the number of awards given out each year. Plus, the lead section would be able to focus on a brief description of where the awards were held that year along with anything unique about that given season. But additional lists by year can be a discussion that continues until we've agreed on how to do that. Right now, there appears to be support for at least 2 articles. --GoneIn60 (talk) 16:14, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Disclosure: I've blocked this user for 48 hours following numerous warnings about improper page splits/mergers, which the user appears to continue to ignore. -- ferret (talk) 20:40, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

I am going to name the new articles 'List of Golden Ticket Awards before 2010' and 'List of Golden Ticket Awards after 2010'. Also, I doubt that it's necessary or needed for someone to disclose that I have been blocked on this talk page. zsteve21 (talk) 09:43, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

That's not what what the consensus was leaning towards in the above discussion. An Amusement Today article should remain for reasons already mentioned. New list articles can be created for the Golden Ticket Awards, but a prose article for the publisher needs to be retained. Also, you seem to be ignoring the problem that still remains by splitting by decade. Each one of those new list articles you're proposing will have the same issue with length and collapsed charts. It would be an improvement, but in actuality, we'd be kicking the can down the road. And while "Before 2010" could work, "After 2010" will only work in the short term, because eventually it's going to outpace the Before 2010 list. --GoneIn60 (talk) 06:55, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Top 50

Could someone please add the full top 50 list for 2022? 47.203.79.242 (talk) 18:32, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I strongly suspect that the location for Perfect Pour shouldn't be Pacifica.

For the 2023 award, it says Perfect Pour | Pacifica, California. I think Perfect Pour is some sort of beverage patent unrelated to the coffeeshop of the same name that is in Pacifica. Does anyone disagree? Benevolent Prawn (talk) 01:29, 17 June 2024 (UTC)