Talk:An-Nisa, 34/Archive 1

Archive 1

Punishment

punishment: 1: the act of punishing 2 a: suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution b: a penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure 3: severe, rough, or disastrous treatment

So by definition 3, hitting your wife is "punishment."

punish: 1 a: to impose a penalty on for a fault, offense, or violation b: to inflict a penalty for the commission of (an offense) in retribution or retaliation 2 a: to deal with roughly or harshly b: to inflict injury on : hurt intransitive verb

to inflict punishment

According to definition 2, hitting your wife is punishing her. Also whatever she did to make you angry is the "fault or offense," and the pain you cause her is the "penalty."

penalty: 1: the suffering in person, rights, or property that is annexed by law or judicial decision to the commission of a crime or public offense 2: the suffering or the sum to be forfeited to which a person agrees to be subjected in case of nonfulfillment of stipulations 3 a: disadvantage, loss, or hardship due to some action : a disadvantage (as loss of yardage, time, or possession of the ball or an addition to or subtraction from the score) imposed on a team or competitor for violation of the rules of a sport 4: points scored in bridge by the side that defeats the opposing contract — usually used in plural

It is clear that getting hit is a penalty. Arrow740 19:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The aim of punishment is to "punish", however the aim of this verse is to "correct" as one can see from previous steps. People beat when they are temporarily angry but the Qur'an asks them to wait for awhile and pass a couple of steps (which makes them cool down). Hitting is the last resort. It is not intended to punish. --Aminz 21:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Getting hit for bothering your husband is a punishment. Arrow740 21:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

if the wife rebels and then ceases, she is not struck. if the measure was punitive, she would be struck for her initial rebellion. the measure, like the ones preceding it, is reprehensive, designed primarily to stop her and not punish her. that much is obvious. ITAQALLAH 00:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Please read the verse. Also, I'll say again that it is clear, according to the dictionary, that this is punishment. The verse doesn't say you can't hit them straight away, anyway. Muhammad himself did just that with Aisha according to hadith. Arrow740 04:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

That's your interpreatition. --Aminz 04:04, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean? Arrow740 04:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

the verse is quite clear: it is not a punitive measure, as i explained. consulting a dictionary does not bring any further light on the issue. the rest of your argument is irrelevant, as well as incorrect. ITAQALLAH 04:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Your amusing repetition of the word punitive:

Main Entry: pu·ni·tive

Pronunciation: 'pyü-n&-tiv Function: adjective Etymology: French punitif, from Medieval Latin punitivus, from Latin punitus, past participle of punire

• inflicting, involving, or aiming at punishment <severe punitive measures>

does not change the situation. Arrow740 05:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

i know what punitive means, and the directed action is not that, as i have proven. ITAQALLAH 15:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I must have missed the proof part. Anyway "punishment" (what I want) and "punitive measure" (your straw man) are not identical in meaning. Arrow740 16:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

a 'punitive measure' denotes 'punishment.' ITAQALLAH 17:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

"A small minority of Muslims interprets the verse as meaning men have an everlasting superiority over women, and thus the authority to beat women with few regulations."''

You ask any practicing Muslim especially the "Muttawas" and you hear the same opinion that women are "inferior" to men, so I think that the word "small minority" is misleading. --77.30.16.62 (talk) 23:21, 15 September 2008 (UTC)