Talk:An Evening with Fred Astaire

Got the show?

If anyone has a copy of the show, I'd love to see it!  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 15:01, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

The show was released on video during the 1980s or 1990s and used copies occasionally turn up on internet auction sites. You could also inquire at the Yahoo Astaire mailing list. The Astaire estate owns all rights to these shows, as Astaire executive produced them and sold them on to NBC. The shows have never been officially released on DVD and the estate has no plans at present to do so. Hopefully this will change as these shows were highly regarded in their time, and are important for serious students of Astaire and 20th century televised dance in general. Dermot 12:28, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

No kidding. I've only seen excerpts, and a DVD with all four shows (with a quality transfer so we can see what early videotape was capable of) would be very nice. Some of these older shows are available on VHS from small companies (vide The Edsel Show) but these are usually kinescope transfers. Oh well.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 13:47, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The Paley Center for Media (formerly The Museum of Television and Radio) has this show in their collection. I have been to the New York location several times and viewed the show once.Thomprod 13:03, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, they only had it from a kinescope copy, and the staff didn't seem to know much about kine vs. videotape -- which I found pretty surprising. Still, it was a great place to visit, and if anyone else wants to see it to help research this article, admission is $10. ProhibitOnions ^(T) 18:35, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Editing videotape

The article currently says,

Although it was recorded live, An Evening with Fred Astaire used a number of editing techniques that are now commonplace, such as chroma key, and dissolves between scenes recorded at different times, particularly in its opening sequence, which introduced the performers using scenes from their later performances.

However, Ed Reitan, who restored the original videotape, has told me that the opening sequence as seen in a clip he has placed on the Web is the result of his own editing of elements from later in the show, and that the "using scenes from their later performances" does not occur in the original program. An entire section of the article seems to have been generated based on false inferences made from that clip. If no one objects, I plan to remove that section of the article. — Walloon (talk) 05:17, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes and no. That video contains short clips from the beginning and the end of the show, which is clearly Reitan's work. However, having watched the show itself, I can confirm it does use a number of these twchniques (dissolves, chroma key), although for the most part follows a one-hour program with live scene changes. The original opening and closing sequences, with the Chrysler advertising, was much more busy than the later ad-free opening and closing sequences, which contained unedited dances. However, it's true, even if the Chrysler beginning did show, for example, Johnah Jones appearing to perform from later in the show, this may just have been the by-then old TV trick of having him mime his performance for a few seconds while one camera was pointed at him. Funnily enough, I was going to ask Ed for a copy of the original version with the advertising to straighten this out. I'll rephrase this a little. ProhibitOnions ^(T) 07:58, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

No, there was no miming by the other performers. Ed Reitan has assured me that all the clips of the other performers under the opening title music were added by him just for that clip, from later parts of the show. This came up when I naively expressed surprise to him at how sophisticated the editing of the opening looked for 1958, when editing videotape was so difficult. The Chrysler opening and closing were still there when the show was rerun in Feb. 1959 (Chrysler sponsored that showing too), but were no doubt stripped for the 1964 rerun. — Walloon (talk) 08:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I just read the section you revised of the article. It still is misleading; the chroma key and dissolve effects were probably performed live, and did not need videotape editing. Probably the only sequences that were taped beforehand and subject to videotape editing were the display of Chrysler '59 models that opened and closed the show. Although, even the opening parade of Chrysler models may have been done live; they simply drive across the stage, and NBC used four stages of their Color City studio for the show. — Walloon (talk) 08:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, it's possible. Unfortunately, one of the sources has disappeared that described the post-production editing of the show, which stated specifically that scenes were edited together, preliminarily on kinescope film, and then, once the sequence was satisfactory, using videotape with the horrendously complicated iron-filings technique. This video [1] shows some of the chroma key highlights of the first two specials, which I agree were likely performed at the same time, rather than an edit. (The same user has posted [2] - it seems he has the same "unofficial" DVD of the Astaire specials that I do.) If you want to rephrase the text, go ahead. ProhibitOnions ^(T) 10:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

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"Color videotape"?

There is no such thing as color videotape. Tape is brown or black - no matter what you record on it. It would be more precise to refer to "recording in color", "color VTRs" or something simular. 178.2.8.223 (talk) 10:12, 23 November 2022 (UTC)