Talk:Anarchism and religion/Archive 1

Archive 1

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Where did you get that list of Anarchist positions on religion? Did you just make them up? Two-Bit Sprite 05:50, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

until somebody makes up something better, this will do.--albamuth 06:38, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Admittedly these are not official terms, however, linguistically, they are properly constructed adjectives. Anyone think it would be useful to include a paragraph stating such in the article, if for no other reason than to avoid confusion on the matter? --Corvun 10:48, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

They might be properly constructed, but they're just standard positions on religion with anarcho added to the front. Since nobody really uses these expressions, and their meaning is exactly the same as without the anarcho prefix, I'm deleting this section. 80.203.115.12 18:44, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Good judgement. --albamuth 23:05, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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I added a little explanation that the categories are simply descriptions meant to group and elucidate, not to serve as defined sects of anarcho-religions or whatever.--albamuth 01:00, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

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The 'See also' section links to pieces about Zen and Anarchism, but the article doesn't mention this at all, maybe someone with the right background could expand the article to include something about this?

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I slightly altered the section on Discordianism, which referred to it a being acccused of being a prank. No one really accused Discordianism of being a prank. It's an actual set of sociaal and philosophical beliefs described using humour that strongly encourages the use of pranks to disrupt the status quo, I instead changed it so it read "somewhat satirical". -Anon

Indeed, but what about the Church of the SubGenius as well. Maybe not even as serious as Discordianism, but the Bob Dobbs' head, I mean, c'mon! What could be a more profoundly humorous satyrical symbol representing everything anarchists are not! Khirad 03:05, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

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Hi - Wanted to add, being a Soka Gakkai Buddhist, on the idea of equality with reference to anarchism. Shakyamuni wanted everyone to be equal to him, enlightenment-wise. An important passage from the Lotus sutra says " At all times I think to myself: How can I cause living beings to gain entry into the unsurpassed way and quickly acquire the body of a Buddha?". In another section of the same chapter (16) he says "living beings have different natures, different desires, different actions, and different ways of thinking and making distinctions" - So it's along the lines of modern cooperative organisations where each person is seen as equally valuable yet different, and heirarchical structures in the soka gakkai aren't done away with but based on faith rather than authority - i.e the culture is that activities work out and members grow and are supported well if there is faith in each other, rather than if people do what they are told. I saw links there with Zen, another "Japanese" branch of Buddhism so it's possible that all Mahayana forms of buddhism have similarities in this area, or maybe just the ones popularised in the middle ages there. oops, should log in - email is skoria at gmail... Can probably ask around and get precise info on Soka or generic Mahayana if needed.

Please do. The entries on Buddhism and Taoism that I added were just meant as temporary "placeholders" so that others could modify or add to those sections. It's probably best to be as generic as possible (ie. write about Mahayana, if possible, instead of Soka Gakkai in particular) since there are so many different Buddhist schools. 80.203.115.12 10:30, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And Quakerism¿?

Many anarchists have come from quaker families or influences.

I agree. Unfortunately the reference to the Quakers was deleted from Christian anarchism (see [1] for article section prior to deletion). Also see editor's rationale who deleted the section [2], and further discussions here [3]. 201.114.216.247 21:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Tibetan buddhism

Not all forms of Buddhism, however, are compatible with Anarchism. Tibetan Buddhism in particular, with its strong cult of personality around the Dalai lama and hierarchal organization, is roundly condemned by Buddhist Anarchists as fundamentally incompatible with the true teachings of the Buddha.

.. and then I click on the link 'buddhist anarchim' to find a lot of talk about beatniks, who hung around and collaborated with Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche , pretty intensly. Ginsberg and Diane di Prima were his students and they still hold a creative writing school named after Kerouac at Naropa University, see: http://www.naropa.edu/blogs/index.php?blog=2 t If beatniks have anything to do with buddhist anarchism, then its a historical fact that tibetan buddhism has a lot to do with it. Of course, the organization of tibetan buddhism is defined by vinaya, pretty much identical to all other buddhism, and I have no idea what to comment on random comments on Dalai Lama (which was just a leader of a portion of tibet, and for mere 3 centuries, and has little to do with tibetan buddhism apart for becomming popular by his own acts) and 'true teachings of the Buddha' (tibetan buddhism is classic mahayana in teachings, and is intensly focused on study of indian masters like nagarjuna and chandrakirti fundamental for all other mahayana buddhism as well), that seem to pretty much only say that whoever wrote this really was not too well informed on the topic. So Ill remove this paragraph. --83.131.159.59 03:27, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I have little interest in editing this, but perhaps it would be interesting to note that Ambedkar , argues in some of his works (Revolution and Counter-Revolution in ancient India, http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/19A.Revolution%20and%20Counter%20Rev.in%20Ancient%20India%20PART%20I.htm) that Buddhism was, or was used for class struggle in ancient India. --83.131.159.59 03:58, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Freemasonry

I was wondering whether or not the thorny topic of freemaonry should be mentioned here?Harrypotter (talk) 23:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Stregheria

I removed this text from the article:

===Stregheria===

Stregheria, from c. 1350 AD onwards, is based around the teachings of Aradia de Toscano. According to Stregheria, the wealthy Christian class made slaves of the poor, who fled from their oppressors and became thieves and assassins and began to make homes for themselves in outlaw camps in the Alban Hills surrounding Lake Nemi. Aradia, after her initiation into a Dianic Witchcraft cult, began to counsel and to take pity on them. She became known as La Bella Pelegrina (The Beautiful Pilgrimess). After receiving a vision from Diana, she came to believe she was the spiritual incarnation of the goddess Aradia, and was revered by the outlaws. She taught them Witchcraft and methods to curse their wealthy oppressors.

Stregheria originally honored the Roman god Lucifer, the Roman goddess Diana, and their daughter Aradia. Stregheria came to adopt a somewhat Christianized view of Lucifer and Diana; Lucifer became a brave rebel who opposed the tyrant God of the Christians, whilst Diana became a nearly Lilith-like figure.

The Benandanti, Witches employed by the Church to combat the followers of Aradia (labeled the Malandanti), eventually joined the movement when they also became the target of witch-hunts.

Stregheria lacks centralized authority in a strict sense, though deities are honored as wise teachers.

This whole section is problematic. Firstly, most of this comes from Raven Grimassi a neopagan author who claims he is the head of a tradition of Italian witchcraft, but whose works are not treated seriously by any historian or folklorist, or even a large part of the neopagan community. Secondly, the benandanti were not employed by the Church, they were persecuted by the Church as witches. For more information see Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches and Benandanti. Ecstasies: Deciphering the Witches' Sabbath by Carlo Ginzburg provides a great deal of very interesting information about the benandanti and other similar folk-magicians in Europe. Fuzzypeg☻ 02:18, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Wicca

The section on Wicca is not entirely representative. Traditional forms of Wicca (dating back to the 1950s at least) have a clear hierarchy within the coven; the High Priestess and High Priest rule the coven absolutely, and if anyone doesn't like it, they can leave. There are modern "Eclectic" forms of Wicca, mostly created in emulation, rather than actually branching out of initiatory Wicca, and in these there is much more individual freedom, especially since the majority of Eclectic Wiccans only practise as individuals!

There are anarchist themes in Charles Leland's Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches, which seems to have been a direct influence on Wicca; basically the story is that a group of medieval serfs were taught witchcraft as a way to free themselves from their tyrannical landlords. Fuzzypeg☻ 05:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Source about the Radical Party

"Spanish anarchists in the early 20th century were responsible for burning several churches, though many of the church burnings were actually carried out by members of the Radical Party while anarchists were blamed."

While I think this claim is good news for anarchists, does anyone have a the source to verify this claim? I think this can be potentially helpful to improve the credibility of anarchism and religion even more than before.

Thank you for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Libertad450 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Theodore Reuss

If he was an anarchist, why did he work for the police? The article makes it sound like he was both an anarchist and someone who worked against anarchists with the police. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.47.151.92 (talk) 23:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I certainly agree that Reuss was an enigmatic person. Perhaps it was just the other anarchists he worked against . . . Harrypotter (talk) 15:15, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Disnomianism

Gonna remove Disnomianism since this is the only evidence I can find for its existence in any capacity outside of wikipedia or a wikipedia clone, give me a heads up if you disagree and we can talk

https://utopiadiscordia.wordpress.com/2008/01/23/revolution-for-non-revolutionaries-or-how-to-change-society-without-having-to-negotiate-with-authorities/ LibrePrincess (talk) 23:10, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Edit: My mistake, I just found the book, gonna have a read of it, it's on Pirate Bay LibrePrincess (talk) 23:12, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

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Black Sun symbol

I removed the so-called Black Sun symbol for missing sources about it being a "pagan" symbol. Instead sourced paragraphs in our main article Black Sun (symbol) strongly point towards it being a nazi symbol by origin, getting it's name no earlier than 1991. If there are sources that prove an earlier origin for this symbol it should be easy to present them. —viciarg⁴¹⁴ 09:14, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Also cf. Goodrick-Clarke 2001, p. 148-150 and similar scientific sources. —viciarg⁴¹⁴ 09:16, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

1st, this is not an article about Black Sun. 2nd, occurrence in the past is not important in this context, because Anarchism is a movement, which is active now, after apperance of Black Sun – indifferent whether it takes place in antiqity or Nazi era. 3rd, you can find such an use of Black Sun with inscribed anarchy symbol, for example, in websites of Anarchist Heathens: [4]. --Wojsław Brożyna (talk) 10:42, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

1. The logo shown on this wordpress page is obviously not the logo depicted in the article.

But this is obviously kind of Black Sun, so? --Wojsław Brożyna (talk) 23:23, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

# In the article it is claimed that the Black Sun is a pagan symbol, which it is not.

I am asking you now for the third time to present sources. In reference to the above linked "Circle Ansuz" page I ask you to respect WP:BLOGS. —viciarg⁴¹⁴ 08:46, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

But you are asking me at wrong place. We can go to Talk:Black Sun (symbol) :) --Wojsław Brożyna (talk) 23:23, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

I am talking about this specific image in this specific article. Source for the use as an anarchist symbol or removal, that's the rules. Do not try to derail the discussion. —viciarg⁴¹⁴ 12:19, 5 February 2019 (UTC)