Talk:Ancient British Church in North America

Notability

How is this group notable? The two encyclopedia references are nearly identical and without sources. There's no mention of the ABCNA elsewhere that doesn't go back to the Encyclopedia of Cults, Sects and New Religions, and nothing at all on the "Celtic-Catholic Culdee Community of Orthodox Monks, Hermits, Missionaries, and Evangelists of the Old Church of the Blessed Virgin, St. Mary of Glastonbury (Our Lady of Avalon), in Diaspora." It all sounds grandiose and major but maybe people haven't realized, usually the case with "Old Catholic" churches like this is it is all glamor and no substance. Usually the real extent of these groups is a geocities page (back then) and some guy's living room.--Aionlux (talk) 00:47, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

If nothing else, it is notable because of the entries in 2 other encyclopedias and that it has had some notice in NRM literature (in addition to less reliable sources). There are literally thousands of religious groups which have not attracted any coverage whatsoever, so the person who authored the original article had good grounds to create it. When I put up the current version, I removed claims for which I could not find reliable sources. There are indications in less reliable sources that the group is not limited to Toronto, and unless the group has since dissolved, there is the possibility that the group has, or will, been the subject of papers not available via a quick Internet search (a poor basis to assess many smaller subjects). In any case, notability was not the reason the article was SD'd last Wednesday (WP:A7). There are literally thousands of religious groups that attract no notice in scholarship at all, and when 2 top NRM scholars elect to devote space in their works, I would suggest that the presumption is that the group is both notable and plausible. As with other short and/or low importance articles, this may serve as a starting point for someone researching the group. • Astynax ^talk 02:07, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, I searched JSTOR and all the journals/databases available for religious studies and I didn't find anything else on this group. Its really not believable that a community that has orders of "Monks, Hermits, Missionaries and Evangelists" is completely invisible.--Aionlux (talk) 09:47, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

And until the group or a member does something criminal or outrageous, you may not find much in an online db. Like Google Books, these databases do not cover anything like the totality of scholarly material in the field of religion (or likely any other subject). Much material is still printed (papers presented in conference proceedings, festschriften, limited-circulation journals, etc.). We have short articles on other groups (the Jim Roberts Brethren comes to mind) that only appeared as a few brief entries in the lit before some media outlet or journal paper sparked greater coverage. I would agree with you were the cited references marginal, but Lewis and Melton are not marginal quality sources. • Astynax ^talk 17:52, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello :) I don't mean to dig this up literally a decade later, but I see you're still active and just posted a reply in the thread below. What's the verdict on this sect still existing at all? Is it still notable if, as I suspect, they died out about 15-20 years ago after the leader passed? ~Sıgehelmus♗_(Tøk) 16:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Does this still exist?

For the most part I can only find wikipedia mirror websites that copy this page, and an occasional reference to this on a blog. But all the sources are quite old it seems, and it doesn't seem to be extant in my opinion. I have no doubt that it once existed - but I cannot find anything that implies its still around. So the essence of my question boils down to: should we change the "is a Western rite denomination..." to "was"? Interested in your thoughts. 24.44.73.34 (talk) 16:51, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I think the latest edition of the Encyclopedia of American Religions (2016) may have some more updated information on this denomination. Veverve (talk) 18:51, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm nigh 3 years late to this, but was going to post a similar question. I can't find any evidence this sect is still around. It seems it quietly disbanded c. late 2000s, if I had to guess. And quite frankly I'm almost suspicious that the existence is confused with many other similarly-named entities. Anyway, I can't find a trace that doesn't link back to this article or isn't ancient. Help?

The absolute latest reference I can find for the name is a passing reference in this 2019 book, Onomastics between Sacred and Profane by Oliviu Felecan. Who in turn seems to have just gotten it from here, or the old books; it seems once the ringleader "Mar Zitikos" reposed, they slowly faded away (or maybe quickly and no one noticed haha). Is this even notable anymore? ~Sıgehelmus♗_(Tøk) 16:28, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response, I'll look into that as soon as possible. 24.44.73.34 (talk) 14:48, 3 November 2021 (UTC)