Talk:Andy Mineo

BLP issues

Our biographies of living persons policy is one of the strongest policies we have, and it requires that all information about living people be scrupulously sourced. Drawn here as an uninvolved administrator to review the paraphrasing concerns (see Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2013 February 24), I found instead substantial content that I cannot find in the sources. For example:

According to his biography on the Reach Records website, "without any positive male figures" he fell into "profanity, submission to authority and physical aggression," eventually being taken out of public school and placed behavior modification and juvenile detention centers.

I've reviewed his biography of the Reach Records website and don't find any of those quotes. I also listened to the video in case it was misattributed, but I don't find it there either.

The article said:

Outside of his music career, Mineo excelled at athletics, specifically football, basketball, and lacrosse, throughout high school.

The bio mentioned that he played football and basketball, but doesn't seem to even mention lacrosse, and it certainly doesn't verify that he excelled at these.

The article said:

After he left school, Mineo formed a rap group with some friends and signed to Syracuse University's Marshall Street Records. The group opened up for major acts such as Jadakiss, The Roots and Common, as well as members of the underground scene, such as Immortal Technique and Dead Prez, when said artists performed at the University.

The bio does not mention Marshall Street Records or any of the acts named here. It cannot be cited to support this content. I've removed that source.

The article said:

As a solo MC, Mineo adopted the moniker "C-Lite" and achieved recognition in the underground freestyle rap scene, winning competitions throughout high school and his freshman year in college.

The official bio, the sole source cited for this, does not even mention "C-Lite", it doesn't mention freestyle rap, and it doesn't mention his winning competitions.

These things may be true, but they can't be included here without a reliable source. This policy cannot be contravened. Content that violates WP:BLP must be removed.

The definition of reliable source differs by context as well. Official sources can't be used to verify extraordinary claims - claims about fame and talent must be attributed to unconnected sources. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:44, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Just looked at the bio. Reach Records rewrote it due to Mineo's upcoming debut album. WebCite might have the old version.--¿3family6 _contribs 17:18, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

UPDATE: Info is available on andymineo.com under his bio. I've tried to archive it, but it is a script so it won't show up on WebCite. Hopefully it can be preserved before a rewrite happens.--¿3family6 _contribs 03:18, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's reassuring. :) To be honest, I was wondering if you were Andy Mineo, since that's most often where I see detail beyond the source. However, it does make the close paraphrasing issues that were originally flagged a little more clear. The biography as it existed when I came to check on the issues follows very closely on the bio on Mineo's site. Looking at one paragraph:

Source	Article pre-revision	Article post-revision
While in middle school, he began recording in his mom’s house and was buying new pieces of equipment with birthday money. Eventually, he started selling studio time out of his closet; before long, he was a sophomore in high school running a lucrative business out of his mother’s basement recording and producing hundreds of artists in Upstate New York. He had also started a rap group with a few friends that led to a deal with Syracuse University's Marshall Street Records, which gave them the opportunity to open up for the major acts that performed at SU. As a solo MC, Andy became well known in the underground freestyle rap scene for winning battle competitions during high school and his freshman year in college. Adding to his resume, he also excelled in athletics—thriving in football, basketball and lacrosse throughout high school.	While in middle school, Mineo had begun recording in his mother's house and was bought new equipment with birthday money, and eventually started selling studio time out of his closet.[1] As a sophomore in high school Mineo ran a lucrative business from his his mother’s basement as a recording engineer and producer for hundreds of artists in Upstate New York.[1] After leaving high school, Mineo started a rap group with a few friends which signed with Syracuse University's Marshall Street Records. The group opened up for major acts, such as Jadakiss, The Roots and Common, as well as members of the underground scene, such as Immortal Technique and Dead Prez, performing at the University.[1][2] As a solo MC under the moniker "C-Lite", Andy became well known in the underground freestyle rap scene, winning competitions during high school and his freshman year in college.[1] In addition to his rap skills, he also excelled at athletics, engaging in football, basketball and lacrosse throughout high school.	While in school, Mineo used his birthday money to buy recording equipment and he eventually started selling studio time out of his closet.[1] By his sophomore year at high school, he had a lucrative career recording and producing for hundreds of Upstate New York artists.[1] Outside of his music career, Mineo excelled at athletics, specifically football, basketball, and lacrosse, throughout high school.[1] After he left school, Mineo formed a rap group with some friends and signed to Syracuse University's Marshall Street Records. The group opened up for major acts such as Jadakiss, The Roots and Common, as well as members of the underground scene, such as Immortal Technique and Dead Prez, when said artists performed at the University.[1][2] As a solo MC, Mineo adopted the moniker "C-Lite" and achieved recognition in the underground freestyle rap scene, winning competitions throughout high school and his freshman year in college

The revisions certainly make it much better, but we are still following very closely on the source both in structure and - in places - language. Sometimes avoiding following too closely on a source means eliminating detail and focusing on what's important to summarize. It's really hard to revise sentence by sentence, since you will generally retain the sequence of the original, with minimal differences.

It's also important to remember, as I mentioned above, that we can't take Mr. Mineo's word for it that he excelled in any sport or that his career was lucrative. Those kinds of things we have to get from a reliable source who has a bit more distance than the subject himself. :) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:49, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for helping here. I became too familiar with the material to stand back from it, so I need an outside look. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to get a stable source for the material, as I suspect that at some point andymineo.com will be re-written as well.--¿3family6 _contribs 18:35, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

References

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120814041014/http://breathecast.christianpost.com/articles/4102/20120811/god-belongs-in-my-city-andy-mineo-anthony-shepherd-sheena-lee-aug-16-18.htm to http://breathecast.christianpost.com/articles/4102/20120811/god-belongs-in-my-city-andy-mineo-anthony-shepherd-sheena-lee-aug-16-18.htm
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Christian rapper

Just because Mineo is not a fan of the term "Christian rapper" or "Christian hip hop" artist, doesn't mean that term should not be applied to him. First, Christian here is an adjective that modifies the genre itself. It carries certain themes. So we have Christian rock, Christian hip hop, Christian country music and others. If you can accept that, then we can move onto the second part of the argument. The genre has some specific music journalists and specific awards. The journalists help determine who is and isn't a member of the genre. The awards are given to members of the genre and sub-genres. There are media outlets and sales channels created for the genre. What several of these groups state determine who is and isn't a member of the group, not individuals themselves. Lacrae can say he's a jazz fusion artist, but if no one says he's a jazz fusion artist, then he's doing something wrong. He can say he's not a Christian rapper, but if journalists say he is, if he continues to be awarded GMA nominations, or Grammys in "Gospel" categories, or if Christian music sellers keep selling his music, then he's a Christian artist. If he doesn't like it, he can either change his behaviour so that people don't see him as Christian any longer, or he can change his style so he's not performing rap, but until one of those happen, he's going to continue to wear the Christian rapper label. No one is pigeon-holing him any more than music journalists who call other rappers Souther rappers, or East Coast rappers, or hardcore hip hop and list goes on. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:20, 3 January 2018 (UTC)