Talk:Angry patriots

Title

The title isn't great, it's kind of just a placeholder for now since that's been the name I've been most familiar with. If anyone has better ideas for a WP:COMMONNAME or adequate descriptive title, I'd love to hear them. Thank you. HappyWith (talk) 17:23, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

"Z-Patrioti", italicized and in reference to the russian common name? DarmaniLink (talk) 01:10, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I think we can safely translate that to "Z-patriots", and would support that as the article title. GnocchiFan (talk) 01:27, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Only problem is, I think "Z-patriots" (Z-патриоты) may also be widely used as a catch-all term for Russians who passively or actively support the war. See how this article essentially uses it as a synonym for "vatnik".

I'm not sure. Maybe we could get a better view of how sources use the different words with a larger, more comprehensive investigation of English-, Russian-, and Ukrainian-language sources, but I'm not sure how to do that. "Z-patriots" already redirects here, BTW. HappyWith (talk) 14:52, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the only reason I don't support Z-Patroits itself, since its not a common name in english, and may be muddied by context lost in translation. the common name in russian is Z-Patrioti, and already have Z-Patriots as a redirect to it. There's a lot of Japanese terms that follow this same pattern where there is no clear english common name, such as kirisute gomen, tsujigiri, tameshigiri. Since this specific term seems to describe the entire ideology you're trying to capture, but in another language, i don't think it would be inappropriate to use that. DarmaniLink (talk) 14:32, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

I suspect Russian-language sources may also use Z-патриоты as a catch-all for Putin supporters, though I’d have to do a more thorough search. I doubt usage would be too different across languages, since the term barely exists in English outside of translations of Russian articles. I had to really scour the web to find any good sources with definitions of the actual specifics movement for this article. HappyWith (talk) 20:13, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

This is a really long one, but perhaps we could go with "Pro-war ultranationalist opposition to Vladimir Putin" (possibly appended with "during the invasion of Ukraine"), to avoid using any specific obscure terms? Variations on this descriptive name are the most common name for the movement in the English-language press, I think. HappyWith (talk) 20:26, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

For corroboration, here's s bunch of articles that use variations on the phrase "pro-war nationalist(s)":

• Russian opposition leader refers to Russian pro-war nationalist and Putin critic Igor Girkin as "political prisoner"
• Pro-war nationalists say they are entering Russian politics to counter turmoil
• Pro-war nationalist Putin critic Girkin charged with inciting extremism
• Russia Has a New Opposition, and It's Furious at Defeat in Ukraine: "If the pro-war nationalists searching for enemies to blame are the only opposition left in Russia, the world may be going down a dark and dangerous track."
• Kremlin Brings ‘Party of War’ to Heel Ahead of Key Regional, Presidential Elections: "President Vladimir Putin is working to silence his most vocal pro-war nationalist critics on the eve of this fall’s regional elections and the 2024 presidential election in which he is expected to seek six more years in power."

I think "Pro-war nationalist opposition to Vladimir Putin" works, since it strikes a good balance between being descriptive and neutral and being a common name. Thoughts? If this gets support, we can move the page, I think. HappyWith (talk) 13:44, 4 August 2023 (UTC)