Talk:Animal echolocation

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2019 and 4 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): OLRCL.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 14:18, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Homo sapiens

Should we not add humans to the list of organisms that can echolocate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.11.187.161 (talk) 12:48, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

There seems to be both published research (PLOS) and popular press (AAAS Science Magazine) that should meet verifiability rules, so that would seem good to me. --Wesley R. Elsberry (talk) 21:03, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

The right way would be to add a short section, named and summarizing Human echolocation (an existing, cited article), with a few key refs from there and a {{main|Human echolocation}} link, rather than creating a WP:FORK here. I guess, by the way, that we have here an example of the ambiguity of the term "animal" which has been discussed elsewhere. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:19, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Soft-furred tree mice: more species to add?

Molecular, anatomical & behavioral evidence for soft-furred tree mice using echolocation.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6548/eaay1513 Fitzhugh (talk) 18:29, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Addition to section "Avoidance by prey animals"

This section needs a substantial description of the ground-breaking research of Kenneth Roeder of Tufts University in the 1960s & 70s on noctuid moths, which, based on two bilateral pairs of neurons, can turn away from a distant echolocating bat, and when the sound gets intense, will stop flying and drop to the ground. A classic study in neuroethology (I do not have time to go into the proper detail and Wikipedia formatting on this, unfortunately). See for example https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.154.3756.1515 Dragonfly360 (talk) 02:30, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Overcitation

The article's currently suffering from some over-citation in areas. Consider either WP:CITEONE or WP:CITEMERGE for solutions. -- Primium (talk) 04:29, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Removed several. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:00, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Animal echolocation/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Primium (talk · contribs) 16:46, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Looks pretty good, just a couple points I've noticed so far:

• Many thanks! Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:54, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

• In the lead, is there a reason you linked to swiftlet rather than cave swiftlet?

• Fixed.

• Still has some overcitation. Particularly at
  • "The oscillation of a target's wings also produces amplitude shifts, which gives a CF-bat additional help in distinguishing a flying target from a stationary one."
  • "This means that the bat can get an almost continuous stream of information – essential when objects are close, because they will pass by quickly – without confusing which echo corresponds to which call."
  • "The second proposes that laryngeal echolocation had a single origin in Chiroptera, i.e. that it was basal to the group, and was subsequently lost in the family Pteropodidae."
  • "The adaptation of echolocation calls to ecological factors is constrained by the phylogenetic relationship of the bats, leading to a process known as descent with modification, and resulting in the diversity of the Chiroptera today."
  • "The result is that range is encoded by location on the cortex, and increases systematically across the FM-FM area."
  • "Tectonic openings created the Southern ocean with a free flowing Antarctic Circumpolar current."

• Slimmed.

I'll come back in a bit to continue looking over the article. -- Primium (talk) 16:46, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Continuing review:

• Missed overcitation in "The adaptation of echolocation calls to ecological factors is constrained by the phylogenetic relationship of the bats, leading to a process known as descent with modification, and resulting in the diversity of the Chiroptera today."

• Fixed.

• "See" is perhaps the wrong word in "With echolocation, the bat or other animal can see not only where it is going but also how big another animal is, what kind of animal it is, and other features."

• Tweaked.

• The wording in "The calls of bats have been most intensively researched, but the principles apply to all echolocation calls" suggests all echolocating animals, but I don't see where this is supported in the first two sources (and can't find access to the third source). It's possible I've missed it, though.

• Added source.

• Might be good to define the term "aerial-hawking" (the article on hawking is exclusively about birds).

• Added.

• The name "whispering bats" isn't used in its source. Should find another source as evidence they are really called this.

• Added. It's a widespread usage.

• "A single echolocation call [...] can last anywhere from 0.2 to 100 milliseconds in duration" - These specific durations are not mentioned in the provided source.

• Added desc and ref.

• In the last paragraph of Animal echolocation § Countermeasures, the last instance of 'tail' uses double quotations, while the other instances do not.

• Removed.

Again, I'll come back later to continue. I've reviewed about a third of the article, so far. -- Primium (talk) 18:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Primium?

Taxonomic range

Bats

• Are you sure basicbiology.net is a reliable source? (ref 38)
  • It seems perfectly adequate for its purpose, plain and factual.

• 'In recent years researchers in several countries have developed "bat call libraries" that contain recordings of local bat species that have been identified known as "reference calls" to assist with identification.'
  • Should have a comma after 'in recent years'.
    • Added.

• • The phrasing in the second half of the sentence feels a little awkward. Maybe something more like 'In recent years, researchers in several countries have developed "bat call libraries" that contain recordings of local bat species known as "reference calls" to assist with identification.'
    • Simplified.

• 'some insects (moths in particular)' - This is the first instance where 'moths' is wikilinked, but it's not the first instance of 'moths' in the article. The first instance is in 'Acoustic features'.
  • Fixed.

• If possible, it would be really great if we could get a diagram of a bat's ear for 'Inner ear and primary sensory neurons'.
  • Noted.

• 'This area of high sensitivity to a specific, narrow range of frequency is known as an "acoustic fovea"' - 'fovea' links to Fovea centralis, which is about the eye. I don't see an article on acoustic fovea, but there is Doppler shift compensation.
  • Linked.

• 'Neurons in this region respond to CF signals that have been Doppler shifted' - Could link to Doppler shift.
  • Already linked above.

Toothed whales

• 'absorption' links to underwater. Is this intended? Seems like it was meant to be something more technical.
  • Removed.

Whale evolution

• This whole section is overly technical. I think it would be difficult for an average reader to parse. Almost everything I'm suggesting a link for would benefit from a brief explanation, definition, or general simplification.
  • Copy-edited and added diagram for simplicity; added links and definitions.
    • Really great work.

• 'Cetacean evolution consisted of three main radiations.' - Should link to both Evolutionary radiation and Cetacean
  • Linked both.

• basilosaurid should be linked
  • Linked.

• 'at the onset of the Oligocene' - As with the middle and late Eocene, you should define the period of this epoch.
  • Done.

• 'it has been found that extant odontocetes are monophyletic' - Please define and link 'monophyletic'.
  • Done.

• Can wikilink "Xenorophus"
  • Linked.

• 'an oligocene stem odontocete, and once in the crown odontocetes.'
  • 'oligocene' needs a capital O.
    • Fixed.
  • 'stem' and 'crown' might benefit from explanation.
    • Linked.

• 'Neogene' - should be linked to Neogene and the period defined.
  • Done both.

• 'greenhouse to an icehouse world' - Can link to Greenhouse Earth and Icehouse Earth.
  • Linked.

• Photic zone should be linked.
  • Linked.

• 'Tmc1 and Pjvk are proteins' - TMC1 should be wikilinked here. The next sentence should have the link removed.
  • Done.

• CLDN14 can be linked.
  • It is linked.

• 'xenorophids' should be linked to Xenorophidae
  • Linked.

• 'Cranial telescoping' - Is this what it sounds like? They can telescope their cranium? Sounds cool, but definitely needs further explanation.
  • Added.

• frontal, maxilla, and external nares should all be linked. ('external nares' could also just be changed to 'nostrils', no?)
  • Linked.

• 'melon' should link to Melon (cetacean).
  • Linked.

• median plane can be linked.
  • Linked.

Mechanism

• 'However, because three of the groups developed NBHF prior to the emergence of the orca, predation by other, ancient, raptorial odontocetes must have been the driving force for the development of NBHF, not predation by the orca. Orcas, and, presumably, ancient, raptorial odontocetes such as Acrophyseter, are unable to hear frequencies above 100 kHz.' => (Removed excess commas) 'However, because three of the groups developed NBHF prior to the emergence of the orca, predation by other ancient raptorial odontocetes must have been the driving force for the development of NBHF, not predation by the orca. Orcas, and presumably ancient raptorial odontocetes such as Acrophyseter, are unable to hear frequencies above 100 kHz.'
  • Done. Appositional commas are not however an error.
• 'For all sonar systems the limiting factor' - Needs comma after 'systems'.
  • Fixed.
• 'fatty organ known as the melon.' - Melon (cetacean) is linked here. It should be removed, as it will be added to previous use.
  • Fixed.

References

Appear to be in good order. Links are accessible.

• "A proposed echolocation receptor for the bottlenose dolphin (Tursiops truncatus): modeling the receive directivity from tooth and lower jaw geometry" - Probably doesn't need the link to bottlenose dolphin in the title.
  • Unlinked.

I asked above if you're sure basicbiology.net is a reliable source (ref 38). I'll trust your judgement. This is the only remaining item.

• Yes, but I've replaced it now.

Conclusion

Great work! It looks excellent (especially the whales section - so much easier to read). I'll update the talk page and mark it GA. -- Primium (talk) 19:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)