Talk:Anti-corruption campaign under Xi Jinping

No princelings?

@Colipon: Isn't the argument that no Princelings been purged outdated? Guo Zhenggang is a princeling, was purged and probably pending trial. Or have I missed something? Secondly, the section "Implicated Officials" could (and I think should) be given a separate article (since this article has the potential to become very big). I would even argue that a list of central level officials can be created (since very few central level officials have actually been purged).. Third, great article. Fourth, thinking of expanding the "Background" section (and see were I go from there). --TIAYN (talk) 09:50, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Article title

I feel the press, certainly within China, more commonly refer to this as "Anti-graft" rather than "Anti-corruption". Comments? Rincewind42 (talk) 14:15, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

I also think the title should be renamed. There have definitely been other anti-corruption campaigns in China. It would be useful if the title were more specific, to represent exactly which anti-corruption campaign this article is about: maybe something like "Anti-corruption campaign of Xi Jinping".Ferox Seneca (talk) 03:00, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

I second Ferox Seneca. Xi Jinping's anti-corruption campaign or Anti-corruption campaign of Xi Jinping would better match the article's scope. It's widely used in English-language publications, see Brookings Institute SCMP, etc. -Zanhe (talk) 03:37, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I third that. clearly there have been many Party purges (or anti-corruption campaigns, as you please...), and one would immediately think that this article could be about the topic in general. But I would propose a slightly different title: Anti-corruption campaign under Xi Jinping. Any objections? I'll solicit a wider set of comments before making a move.Happy monsoon day 21:42, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't feel too strongly about this issue, although I am of the view that appending Xi's name is not the right way to go, since while he has been closely associated with the campaign, it is not totally clear that the campaign was in fact his brainchild, rather than driven by consensus of the top leaders. In Chinese, the title used is "Anti-corruption activities since the 18th Party Congress"; in English it may be fine to say "Anti-corruption campaign in China (2012–present)" until a better name emerges? Colipon+(Talk) 21:57, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

I searched on Google News, it shows "anti-graft china" has about 89,800 results and "anti-corruption China" has about 140,000 results. So "anti-corruption" is more commonly than "anti-graft".--Shwangtianyuan (talk) 07:47, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

colipon, can you point to some good sources indicating that it is a consensus of top leaders (which leaders?)? all the political analysis on elite politics i've been reading - viz Li Cheng, Alice Miller, Willy Lam, &c. has it that this is a Xi Jinping-led campaign. It would be a trivial exercise to find several strong references that framed it this way. but certainly that could be counteracted by other strong ones if they are around.

User:Shwangtianyuan - i'm with you on that. my instinct would tell me that anyway. 'graft' seems a narrower term than what this campaign has targeted, in particular with the emphasis on personal discipline and rectitude (习八条) and so on. Happy monsoon day 01:00, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I certainly see your point of view, and indeed it is also my own view that Xi is the main force behind this campaign; however, it may still be improper to name it after him as though it is his personal campaign, if only for reasons of encyclopedic propriety alone. For example the article on "Obamacare" is named the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" despite the universal agreement among reliable sources that it is Obama's signature program, and the WP:COMMONNAME being "Obamacare". Colipon+(Talk) 20:10, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I see your point of view, too. i'm interested in what others think. i'll also have a closer look at precisely what the naming policy says. but i'm wary of drawing a 1:1 equivalence between the sort of extralegal, holistic and totalizing campaign we have seen in china, and a piece of specific legislation in the United States. they are completely different beasts. If Obama did what Xi Jinping has done - turn the government upside down rooting out Bush Jr. loyalists, empowering a committee in the DNC as a secret police force conducting interrogations outside of legal supervision and so on - then i expect an article on wikipedia about that campaign would probably include Obama's name in it. this would not be as a political gesture, but simply as a matter of providing a name that is politically/socially/culturally accurate to the circumstances in which it exists.

here is how People's Daily reports [1], for example: “全党必须牢记，反对腐败是党心民心所向。有党心民心作力量源泉，反腐败斗争必定胜利。”在十八届中央纪委五次全会上，习近平总书记站在党和国家全局高度，充分肯定2014年党风廉政建设和反腐败斗争取得的新成效，深刻分析党风廉政建设和反腐败斗争的新形势，明确提出当前和今后一个时期工作的总体要求和主要任务，讲话旗帜鲜明、振聋发聩，对我们坚守阵地、巩固成果、深化拓展，不断把反腐败斗争引向深入、夺取反腐败斗争新胜利，具有重要指导意义。" So if both Chinese sources, party sources, and Western scholarly secondary sources all understand it in this way, I wonder why our article would not reflect that?

Note also that I do not think it is a personal campaign by Xi, necessarily. the name I suggest is Anti-corruption campaign in China under Xi Jinping. This indicates that it takes place under Xi's rule, but no more than that. The ambiguity allows for both meanings. i am not sure how far my thoughts above stray from the relevant considerations we should have for article names. all thoughts welcome!Happy monsoon day 22:25, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

does anyone disagree with the proposed name above? this article title seems to be about all anti-corruption campaigns, or about the phenomenon in general. That's manifestly not the case.

separately, this is an interesting article that we should probably cite: http://www.fairobserver.com/region/asia_pacific/xi-jinpings-crusade-on-corruption-in-china-90157/ -anyone have a read on whether this is a good source or what?Happy monsoon day 19:21, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

I am alright with "Anti-corruption campaign under Xi Jinping", removing the "China" altogether since it is not ambiguous where the campaign is taking place. We can move the page keeping in mind that one day it could be changed again, since it no longer appears like this is a short-term thing - and could very well extend beyond his term in office. Colipon+(Talk) 19:15, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

pleasure doing business with you. fist bump. Happy monsoon day 17:48, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

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Use of 'Paramount Leader'

Can we not use the term 'paramount leader' to describe xi jinping and his predecessors hu jintao and Jiang Zemin, instead of using 'paramount leader' (which would more accurately describe mao and deng) could we just use President?

Cheers, HK. --Hkfreedomfighter (talk) 01:03, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

· Article "Paramount_leader" gives some rationales for uses of the term instead of 'president'. DKEdwards (talk) 22:27, 5 September 2021 (UTC)