Talk:Antioch College/Archive 1

Chit-Chat About Hippies and Transvestites etc.

So, Can any one tell me what the general student population is like?

• After having visited, I can say that they are quite delightfully hippie-like. Imagine lots of piercings and tatoos.

Go visit, its more than dirty hippies, etc ... and make sure you visit THE Yellow Spring - once believed to be a source of eternal life.

Transvestites? Hippies? This is the 21st century. There are very few "hippies" and since Antioch students question gender binaries, the issue of "transvestites" is moot. Students are generally intellectually curious and committed to social justice.Drsoftie 14:00, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Population

The campus is around 58% female to 42 male%. Students typically come from the both the east and west coast. From home school to arts backgrounds. There is a long tradition at Antioch of being open to LGBT folks as well. I would add that though their were some hippies most of the students were more into hip-hop and activism when I attended in the mid-90s. If your into world traveling, being self-directed, and taking educated risks you will find those types of folks on the campus in Yellow Springs.

58% female 42% male may be a number given out as data, but that doesn't take into account the large number of trans and/or gender queer folks at Antioch.

The number of trans and/or gender queer folks at Antioch is not very large. It is certainly less than 5% of the population.Drsoftie 13:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Closure

Don't write in the present tense e.g.: "The other campuses of Antioch University are expected to continue normal operations". Instead use the past tense: "The other campuses of Antioch University were expected to continue normal operations".Cylon 00:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

The closure is being actively fought, it is not ready for the past tense. --LeeAzzarello 02:10, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

First, it is generally the practice to put the newer post at the bottom. Secondly, Lee I think Cylon was talking about manuscript style, and not making a comment on whether or not the closure is a forgone conclusion. Ursasapien (talk) 06:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with using the present tense to describe current events here. -- Rbellin|Talk 14:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I think, since this is the encyclopedia article and not the Wikinews story, past tense is more proper. However, it is nothing I would lose sleep over. Ursasapien (talk) 04:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The contents of the 21st Century closure are clearly the result of the administration of Antioch, because it reads like their press release. However, according to the Dayton Daily News, June 23, 2007, the school is closing because of the failed renewal plan foisted on the faculty by the Board of Trustees. The article also states that the Board failed to raise the money that they had promised for this plan.

At Alumni Reunion weekend June 22-24, 2007 the alumni developed a plan to keep the college open. The faculty have also issued a press release about their experiences. These can be found at www.antiochians.org. The section on closure should include this information.Drsoftie 13:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the section on the closure should include all this information. But it has to be reported neutrally and documented by cited sources. Wikipedia articles cannot be written in order to advocate a position or distort the published record in order to favor one side of a controversy. -- Rbellin|Talk 14:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Yea, Drsoftie, go ahead, be bold and write something up. Just follow Rbellin's advice and cite sources and present both sides. I think it is also important to note that the administration is not accused of doing this on purpose, they are accused of bungling the whole thing. Ursasapien (talk) 04:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, who's accusing who of what isn't quite that simple on the ground (I'm a current student there, graduating in the fall thankfully). But I agree with the general point that there are enough media sources to write about the various "sides", if you wanna call them that, in a neutral and sourced fashion. Natalie 20:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Antioch endowment

The Chronicle of Higher Education article on the closure "Antioch's Closure Signals the End of an Era" byline: Paul Fain, 6/22/2007, Pg. 1 Vol. 53 No. 4, more precisely states that the Antioch endowment is $36.2 million. I have access to that article via Lexis-Nexis at my university, but otherwise I'm pretty sure it requires registration. Should I edit and link, in the interest of precision? I'm new, so I'm not sure I know how to do this. Alas i am 05:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Be bold! Edit in the correct information. It would be helpful if you cited your source. Look at the citation templates for guidance on how to do it. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me on my talk page. Ursasapien (talk) 06:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

no robert anton wilson mention?

I am stunned that there is no mention of robert anton wilson either in the in literature section or in notable alumni. I attended in the mid 1980s (Mia Zapata took some of my virginity) and a considerable portion of the student body (like maybe a tenth?) was there due to having read about Antioch in Illuminatus as some kind of paradise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.251.194.18 (talk) 00:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

While Robert Anton Wilson does mention Antioch in the Illuminatus books, he was not himself an alum. Holzman (talk) 14:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Lead section will need trimmed

While the article isn't quite what I would call a current event-related article (at least not yet), the subject of the article is a bit volatile right now, and probably will remain so at least for the remainder of this year. Therefore, I don't recommend that we trim the lead section just yet, as it is important that we first get the facts straight. Even so, at four paragraphs it becomes clear that our first priority will be trimming the lede, once the subject of the article returns to some stability. -- JeffBillman (talk) 00:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Seems that two years after Jeff's suggestion, it's time to trim the lead. Separation of the original Antioch College campus from the University is complete, and the College is now engaged in trying to attract new students. The lead still goes into far too much detail about the events of 2007/2008. AECwriter 02:25, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Profiles

To make this section and others less Antioch-worshipful ("The best-selling guidebook Colleges That Change Lives by Loren Pope says of Antioch, 'There is no college or university in the country that makes a more profound difference in a young person's life or that creates more effective adults'"), I have added the following: George Will's opinion is slightly different: there is only, he says, "a minuscule market for what Antioch sells for a tuition, room and board of $35,221 — repressive liberalism unleavened by learning."

This section also contained the US News and World Report ranking, which is not particularly high (3rd tier of four) but it was deleted without comment or explanation. I've restored it, though, which adds a bit of balance. Natalie 20:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

"Antioch-worshipful" writes the George Will enthusiast. Hmm. He/she might be talking about boosterism. "(B)ehind this facade of piety and generosity was the real intent of an ambitious religious body to gain its share of the national limelight, and the ambitious desire of local entrepreneurs to garner real estate profits," wrote Horace Mann biographer Jonathan Messerli of Antioch's founding. "Rarely has the history of American higher education witnessed such a convenient marriage of aggressive denominationalism and boosterism as in the founding of Antioch College in Yellow Springs, Ohio." The Yellow Springs boosters are still at it, though the old religious zeal now finds expression as an "liberal and progressive activism." The boosters will tend to overstate this aspect of the college's history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aecwriter (talk • contribs) 16:58, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

One glaring omission is the Antioch student strike of 1973, which is agreed to initiated the college's in decline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aecwriter (talk • contribs) 00:15, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Trimming and Updates

The lede to the article has been trimmed and updated to reflect the most current state of things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Glouima (talk • contribs) 19:36, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Several sentences are comical in their irrelevance to Antioch’s history: “World War I had little effect, good or bad, on the college and though some people contracted influenza during the Spanish flu epidemic, there were no deaths.” AECwriter 08:52, 18 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aecwriter (talk • contribs)

There's a note at the top of the page about merging the article with Antioch University Midwest. That would be wrong. Both operate independent of one another and Antioch is recruiting for fall of 2011. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.65.65.201 (talk) 06:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

This article is terribly out of date; the 35 Horace Mann Fellows who make up the class of 2015 have arrived and started classes. I am one of them and am too busy currently to do the research necessary to update the article myself, but if anyone is up to the challege it would be appreciated! 98.102.114.211 (talk) 23:39, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Conflict of Interest

Antioch College alumni, please be aware of Wikipedia guidelines for Conflict of Interest and neutrality.

"If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:

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avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially neutral point of view, verifiability, and autobiography.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Business' FAQ. For more details about what constitutes a conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest. Thank you." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aecwriter (talk • contribs) 17:49, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Failed Institution

If any institution ever deserved to die, it was Antioch College. Even back in 1988, the students received no education except what they themselves deigned "relevant", parents paid exorbitant fees for nothing, the facilities and grounds were maintained like a condemned ghetto, and the chancellor drew a salary in the mid seven figures. The students wandered around town like zombies and the faculty were nowhere to be found. I can only imagine what it was like after another 20 years of neglect. Kasgan (talk) 02:14, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for your input, but it's irrelevant. Bantam1983 (talk) 22:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I beg to differ: it's highly relevant. I'm not an Antioch alumni, but I'm very curious about what the atmosphere was like during the decline and fall. The way most liberal arts colleges are today makes me suspect that George Will is at least partially right. I'd love to hear more from Kasgan and others, and there really should be a section on the main page about reasons for the decline. Better, someone ought to write a book about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.38.11.213 (talk) 06:42, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

There was, in the middle eighties, a culture of expel first, ask questions later (if at all) to keep order. The fact that that had been going on for some time -- the lack of visibility into the proceedings of allegedly existing "community standards board" -- drove the controversial 1993 policy thing. For the YS campus, the big thing was that there was going to be a process now; no more expelling people because some misbehaving fiend claimed their name when caught vandalizing. (well that's what happenned to this anonymous poster, he found out, fifteen years after the fact) Maybe I'll write your book for you, 71.38.11.213, if I ever calm down enough on the topic and run out of Other Much More Interesting Things To Do Like, You Know, Living. For now, imagine Rules_of_attraction but instead of snuffing a cigarette out in your mailbox they have you expelled. 75.87.138.107 (talk) 02:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Is there any credible evidence that it will reopen in a month? Kasgan (talk) 04:43, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

• I thought not. Kasgan (talk) 00:32, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Don't be absurd, Kasgan. The school is up and running. I'm a student here and I'm sitting in my dorm room as I type this. 98.102.114.211 (talk) 23:36, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

• Still there? I doubt it. Kasgan (talk) 02:03, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Header information is outdated - should be updated

Antioch College's closing does not belong in the header; the College was briefly closed -- not the first time in its history -- and has been reopen for some time now. More relevant is the current state of the college and some of the facts related to its history; for example, that it had the highest percentage of MacArthur fellows of any small school. Even in the context of the closing the fact an alum won the Nobel Prize the day after the University announced the closing puts that event in a more relevant perspective.

I don't want to make the change unilaterally. My goal is to start a discussion and try to reach consensus with the editors and whomever is updating and editing the page. The description is no longer accurate and puts the college into an unnecessary and unfair pejorative light. If anything, the closure belongs in the header for Antioch University -- who decided to close their namesake school after years of questionable management -- rather than Antioch College.

All this does not mean that there not problems at Antioch:I'm an Antioch Alum and recognize them myself. But every organization, including and especially Colleges, have issues, and many go through dark days. After a sufficient amount of time, when we see reach change -- which we have -- it becomes a historical footnote, which is where we're at now.

Michaelolenick (talk) 15:10, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Academic Program

I appreciate the recent clean-ups by Chimino and others, however I have reverted the "Academic Program" section that had been deleted. This section is: (a) neutral in tone; (b) necessary information about the institution; and (c) in line with similar sections in other private Ohio college wiki articles, e.g., Kenyon College, Denison University, and Heidelberg University. My only connection with Antioch is being the father of a new student there; these changes do not originate with the College's administration, nor with alumni. — Comment added by Helminski (talk • contribs) 17:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I hate to engage in an edit war, but per the Wikipedia:College and university article guidelines, "Because Wikipedia is not a directory, do not attempt to list every major, degree, or program offered in this or any section." The recent changes made by the anonymous IP, who undoubtedly is affiliated with the college, were clear boosterism.--Chimino (talk) 01:11, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Chimino, thanks for your guidance. Yes, I must admit that I agree with you. Over the New Years weekend I will make changes to the article to have it conform more closely to the College and University article guidelines you linked above, including the "academic program" part. (I'll also log in before I make future changes, so I don't come out as "anonymous IP" anymore.) I suppose, as the parent of a student, I've been guilty of boosterism, but will try hard to avoid that in the future. Thanks, and all the best for the New Year. Helminski (talk) 22:08, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Notable people

Hi. The Antioch College alumni list has gotten to the point that it needs to be split off into its own article. See the following colleges as examples. Thanks! Corkythehornetfan (talk) 20:18, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emporia_State_University#Notable_alumni
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Kansas#Notable_alumni_and_faculty

 Done by Wookiepedian. Corkythehornetfan^Talk 22:59, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

SOP/SOPP

It is far from clear whether the quote

Verbal consent should be obtained with each new level of physical and/or sexual contact/conduct in any given interaction, regardless of who initiates it.

comes from the Antioch SOP, SOPP or even the original Wymen of Antioch Sop (though that seems unlikely).

The current cite to https://auth.lib.unc.edu/ezproxy_auth.php?url=http://www.ejhs.org/volume1/burrow/burrow.htm is a deadlink, but probably a redirect to http://www.ejhs.org/volume1/burrow/burrow.htm which refers to "The Antioch College Sexual Offense Policy adopted in 1990". As we have already established the SOP was adopted in 91/2. Part of the cited policy is given ad [1] - but no publication date or authorship details are supplied. This work cited David Hall, also published in 1998, possibly after the new SOPP had been issued.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 17:03, 6 November 2015 (UTC).

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