Talk:LaSirena69

Requested move 13 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Editors are reminded that there are five WP:CRITERIA, which are goals, not rules, which may conflict with each other. The "consistency" goal does not take precedence over the "common name goal", and we don't have any specific naming conventions for pornographic actressess. If we did, I'd argue that we should always favor their stage names, regardless whether they seem like "real" names or not, which it seems obvious are used for personal privacy and protection (WP:BLP). Besides, we are now consistent with the Spanish wiki: es:LaSirena69. – wbm1058 (talk) 13:59, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

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Antonella Alonso → LaSirena69 – Antonella's recognition has been acquired in the porn industry by her stage name: LaSirena69. Inside and outside the industry, few know who Antonella Alonso is. The companies that have made her famous, such as Penthouse, Playboy, Brazzers, Bangbros, RealityKings, or Mofos, promote her as LaSirena69. Specialized databases like IAFD, Adult Film Data Base, FreeOnes, and AVN call it LaSirena69, even in IMDb it appears so. Therefore and in accordance with WP:CRITERIA policy -Recognizability – The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize-, the article should be titled as LaSirena69 as it occurs with similar articles like Belladonna, Tori Black, Air Force Amy, or Dita Von Teese. Regards, BetoCG (talk) 06:10, 13 June 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. Spekkios (talk) 01:31, 23 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisted. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 18:37, 8 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 18:42, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Previous disposition
Procedural close. This requested move is suspended pending the outcome of discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Antonella Alonso. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 17:23, 14 July 2022 (UTC) Relist note: AfD closed as keep. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 18:37, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, as well as WP:NPOVTITLE. Most of the references used in the article refer to her as "Antonella Alonso", as well as several other reliable sources: (Uniradio Informa, Vice, Yahoo, El Pitazo, 24 Horas, Iberoeconomía, La Prensa, El Gráfico). I do not dispute that "LaSirena69" is a known name, as any stage name; what I'm disputing is that it is as common or even more common than Antonella Alonso, particularly by independent references. None of the linked sources in the request are independent, and some of them, like IMDb, uses user generated content and is not reliable (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#IMDb for more details).

Besides WP:COMMONNAME, I believe WP:CONSISTENT should also be bore in mind: while there are plenty of pornographic actors that use pseudonyms and their articles are titled accordingly, this is not the case with titles that are more similar to usernames, such as "LaSirena69" (which literally translates as "TheMermaid69"). None of the articles linked as examples use a username as a title instead of a simple alias. I'm also afraid that "LaSirena69" is not an encyclopedic title (NPOVTITLE); the move would be justified only if the proposed title was overwhelmingly common, which is not the case.

"LaSirena69" is already bolded in the lead per the manual of style, and a redirect already links to this main page, meaning that a move is not be necessary. --NoonIcarus (talk) 08:40, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

• Comment The name of LaSirena69 is so extensive that a simple search in Google gives us 183,000,000 results against the 90,300 results of Antonella Alonso (I clarify that the search engine is only used as a reference for the widely majority result. In this case, WP:GOOGLETEST does not can be invoked to disqualify the result, since it is the same person Googled and is not used to test their relevance.

  Regarding disqualifying the title for resembling a username, it is totally false that Wikipedia avoids it by not being encyclopedic, otherwise these articles would not be titled as such: AuronPlay, Alpharad, Cr1TiKaL, TBJZL or OMGitsfirefoxx.

  If Antonella did not want to be recognized as LaSirena69, she would have already changed her name on her social networks (Facebook/Twitter). In this case, only the author of the article does not like that it is titled with the most well-known name, which goes against the spirit of Wikipedia. BetoCG (talk) 04:33, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

  One of the first things that WP:GOOGLETEST is that care should be taken on the interpretation of the results. That is why the first thing that I addressed was the use of each name by reliable sources. GOOGLETEST specifcally says:

  An industry exists seeking to influence site position, popularity, and ratings in such searches, or sell advertising space related to searches and search positions. Some subjects, such as pornographic actors, are so dominated by these that searches cannot be reliably used to establish popularity.

  It should also be noted that hits can differ widely depending on how the search is carried out. When you first argued for the move in the Spanish Wikipedia, you quoted way less conservative numbers: 12,700,000 hits for LaSirena69 vs. 3,220,000 for Antonella Alonso. I have to wonder, which was the cause of this difference? And why should we rely on it to support a move?

  Last but not least, this does not address my concerns regarding WP:CONSISTENT: I am not aware of any other pornographic actor whose title in their English Wikipedia article are alphanumeric usernames. --NoonIcarus (talk) 22:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

@NoonIcarus: Just out of curiosity, are there any pornstars on Wikipedia with numbers in their name? —usernamekiran (talk) 09:11, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

References

• Comment The figures differ because this time I used quotes to give the search greater accuracy. Bernard already explained that to you on Wikipedia in Spanish, both about the quotation marks and about WP:GOOGLETEST, but it seems that you still don't understand it. By the way, this discussion isn't about your concerns, it's about the title of articles that require us to use the best known name, even alphanumeric usernames. Clear example: Jerma985, Vikkstar123 and Vegetta777. BetoCG (talk) 06:23, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

  Who are streamers and not pornographic actors. I should remind that each policy is different for each Wikipedia, and the quote that I offered is clear on this issue. All of my concerns have been expressed through policy, and not based on personal feelings. --NoonIcarus (talk) 08:13, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

• Question: has she actually changed her name? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:44, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

  No. This is a porn star, known in porn by her stage name. This is an exceptional case with RS media covering an active porn performer primarily under her real name. I'm neutral on a page move. • Gene93k (talk) 12:32, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

  Ditto, what Gene93k said. Her legal name remains continues being "Antonella Alonso". --NoonIcarus (talk) 16:13, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

• Comment' Edson Arantes do Nascimento is the legal name and it has been used by many media, but he is recognized all over the planet as Pelé -that's why it's so titled on Wikipedia-, it is the same thing that happens with LaSirena69. There are many more examples such as: AuronPlay, El Santo, Juan Gabriel, Lady Gaga, Pee Wee, among others. Regards, BetoCG (talk) 20:49, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support Does anyone know Ricardo Eliécer Neftalí Reyes Basoalto? Of course not, perhaps they'll know 'bout Pablo Neruda; We'll know Robert Galbraith, right? FALSE, because it's a pseudonym for J.K. Rowling, am I right? The relevance does not go hand in hand with the name, it's bout history and how peoaple know them... Saloca (talk) 20:40, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

This move discussion is about Antonella Alonso, though, and not about writers. --NoonIcarus (talk) 22:25, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support Per WP:COMMONNAME. She's a pornstar, her stage name is LaSirena69. She's very well know in the porn industry with this name and not by her real name. Real name have a marginal use. Bernard (talk) 21:28, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:43, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment Saloca and Bernard: since your last edits in the English Wikipedia before the participating were on 12 May 2020 and 4 September 2021, respectively, I wanted to ask: how did you learn about this move discussion? Kind regards --NoonIcarus (talk) 07:43, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

I mentioned Bernard here, in case you forgot. It is sad that you now intend to disqualify the participants, due to your inability to sustain, based on the policies, an incorrect title that you have insisted on imposing. Greeting, BetoCG (talk) 03:21, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

I am not disqualifying, I'm expressing a legitimate doubt considering the long time since the last edits in the English Wikipedia, and that does not answer Saloca's participation. Having asked me first that it seems that I still don't understand arguments provided, I feel you're being unnecessarily aggresive regarding this discussion. --NoonIcarus (talk) 07:53, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONAME, every source that NoonIcarus has listed mentions Antonella Alonso is also referred to LaSirena69. Judekkan (talk) 16:42, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
• support per WP:COMMONAME, also we do have many stage names with numbers in it like Three 6 Mafia, 98 Degrees et al. —usernamekiran (talk) 09:11, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

• Comment: I do not think this subject meets the notability requirements of the encyclopedia, and have nominated the article for deletion. I would suggest suspending action on this discussion pending the outcome of that one. BD2412 T 16:50, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
• Changing to weak support per WP:COMMONNAME, now that the AfD matter is settled. RS coverage is under both names, although coverage Ms. Alonso's real name is of higher quality. However, some of that is notoriety as a porn star relative of another famous person. • Gene93k (talk) 02:26, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I only ask to bear in mind the WP:GOOGLETEST when considering this. The current lead already mentions and explains her pseudonym. --NoonIcarus (talk) 02:36, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Real name correct?

What's her real name 71.86.174.211 (talk) 00:24, 28 September 2022 (UTC)