Talk:Antonio Villaraigosa/Archive 1

Archive 1

Distinguish

I've moved this new text from the page:

• During the immigration protests in March and April 2006, Mayor Villaraigosa would not distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants when discussing the issue publicly.

How do we know this? -Will Beback 19:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Animal Services "Controversy"??

I fail to see what's controversial about the Animal Services Controversy (also those titles should be sentence style--I'll fix that). It sounds like he more or less kept to his campaign pledge. Perhaps if there was someone who actually said there was something wrong with his actions... Rereading the section, I guess race was at issue, but was racism actually ever raised anywhere as a cause for concern? I think we should find a source. Theshibboleth 06:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Distortion from supporters

Despite repeated corrections there are those who would have you believe Mr. Villaraigosa is a lawyer or attorney. Since he has not been awarded a degree from an accreditted law school, passed any state bar, nor gained admittance to the ABA, he is not a licensed attorney nor can he act as one. NY Times article debunked

(1) One need not receive a degree from an accredited law school to be admitted to practice law in CA; (2) the ABA is a voluntary organization that has ZERO responsibility for licensing or disciplining attorneys; (3) the licensing body for attorneys in CA is the CALIFORNIA STATE BAR. Gotta love the POST FIRST, CHECK LATER mentality.

I have no objection to removing the lawyer assertion. Can we provide a source that says he is closely associated with socialist causes? Or that he is a current supporter of MeCHA? Thansk, -Willmcw 23:54, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

No one knows whether Villaraigosa still supports MEChA, because no one in the news media will ask him about it. One of the links provided is to a KNX radio reporter asking him about the MEChA involvement. However, that took place in 2001. He was not asked about MEChA during any of this year's debates. Feel free to label the links, but removing them would be providing a distorted picture of Villaraigosa. As for the paragraph added above the links section, that's a clear statement of fact, not opinion. It also links to several other WP pages, so I don't think there should be a problem with that. I also added a link to Villaraigosa's campaign site for balance.

This is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper or an election site. Feel free to add this information next week. But anonymous editors posting hit material a week before a nasty election is not NPOV. -Willmcw 06:14, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

I'm posting factual material. The entry in its current form is misleading: it does not give the full picture. And, quoting from the NPOV: "The policy is easily misunderstood. It doesn't assume that it's possible to write an article from a single, unbiased, objective point of view. The policy says that we should fairly represent all sides of a dispute, and not make an article state, imply, or insinuate that any one side is correct." Please let me know what you intend to do to round out this article so it reflects the complete picture. -LonewackoDotCom 11:15am pacific 5/12/05

It is the responsibility of every editor to make NPOV edits. You cannot add a bunch of (supposedly) factual but intentionally denigrating information and then expect other editors to provide the balance. Considering that this derogatory material is being added just days before an election that follows a negative campaign, it appears that the reasons for adding it is not to improve the encyclopedia, but rather to affect the election. If that's not the case, then waiting few days won't make a difference. Cheers, -Willmcw 22:16, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

If you look at the history of changes to this article you will see that user Willmcw has consistantly removed the same facts regarding this bio & replaced it with the same white-washing. Given that different editors have repeatedly edited back in the facts shows that the editor Willmcw is an idealogue that believes in the rule of a one person minority. This particular editor would like to note that w/in one day, actually, w/in hours Willmcw has changed the basic facts. Instead of trying to hava a Saloth Sar year 1 mentality what does Willmcw have to hide? Just leave the information but debate it!

If you have verifiable sources for (ungrammatical) assertions like, " was active in chicano gangs" or "through affirmative action quotas was admitted into UCLA where he spent most of his energies in an anti-US/anglo marxist movement called MeCHA" then we can include them. There's no reason to delete the name of his high school or his law school. If you want to add that the law school is unaccredited then I won't object. But since he's not a practicing lawyer his legal credentials are not a key issue, but we should include an NPOV treatment of whatever verifiable sources we have. Thanks, -Willmcw 23:50, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

what's ungrammatical? would appreciate the enlightenment - regardless any polishing would be welcome given that it's original intent was to dash off a few facts as in this case - re those facts where are the verifiable sources that he was thrown out of school for brawling at a football game? still overall it's a white wash was when the only portrayel to his tarnished past is that he came from an unstable background - struggling folk would be impressed that he overcame truancy, organized deliquency, radicalism, scholastic failure and achieved political/civic successes

I didn't write the part about his high school career. The L.A. Times ran a big bio on him back in May, it may have come from there. If you think that there is a mistake then point it out. Perhaps the same article has mention about his (supposed) involvement in MeCHA. Check it out. Cheers, -Willmcw 04:24, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

could i get some help here? what's ungrammatical? the wall street journal ran an article debunking much of his bio and proving his gang/radical past quoting his fbi file and lapd file - Villaraigosa ‘renuncia’ a Mecha

Mientras hablaba Villaraigosa en el interior del restaurante Mort’s Palisades Deli, Andrew Jones, ex alumno de la Universidad de California en Los Ángeles (UCLA), exigía con un cartel que Villaraigosa rechazara los principios “de reconquista” del Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán, al que perteneció el concejal durante sus años universitarios.

“La mayoría de los jóvenes latinos que asistieron a universidades pertenecieron a MECHA”, dijo Villaraigosa. “No estoy de acuerdo con la mayoría de sus preceptos. Pero en la universidad, todos formábamos parte de esa organización. “Por supuesto que renuncio a su filosofía”, indicó.

“Estoy absolutamente anodadado”, respondió Jones. “Cruz Bustamante no lo quiso hacer, y se le persiguió por meses con eso”, agregó, refiriéndose a la campaña de destitución del 2003.

the below is an english translation of La Opinion reporter Jazmin Ortega's ending paragraph of her article in the May 12th edition of the Spanish language newspaper

"Villaraigosa ‘renounces’ MEChA

While Villaraigosa was speaking inside the restaurant, Mort's Palisades Deli, Andrew Jones, alumnus of the University of California in Los Angeles (UCLA), demanded with a poster that Villaraigosa reject the principles “of reconquista” of the Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan [MEChA], that the councilman belonged to during his university years. “Most of the young Latinos who attended universities belonged to MEChA," Villaraigosa said. “I am not in agreement with most of its precepts. But in the university, we were all part of that organization. Of course I renounce its philosophy,” he said. "I am absolutely surprised,” responded Jones. “Cruz Bustamante did not want to do it, and he was attacked for months about it,” he added, referring to the recall campaign of 2003.

It's universally well known and documented he didn't finish high school, was in gangs and UCLA admits they admitted him without finishing high school. Also that, MeCHA, which he admits belonging too, is an anti-American, marxist organization.

What's wrong with showing this? Why do you delete all the above when all we deleted was one of his high school names. You shouldn't be ashamed of him. His is a remarkable achievement story, right?

"Universally well known and documented"? Good. How about a link to these sources that say he never graduated high school? How do you happen to have access to his FBI file? Thanks, -Willmcw 06:47, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

any chance re the grammar in the first para? - like i said i blasted off the grammer & am probably wrong - could you tell me where to polish it up? re the fbi although i have a ts/3 full scope clearance i was quoting the journal which quoted his files - you asked for it but here are some of our sources bruinalumni.com

The long run-on sentence is not in the current article anymore. Please do no post a long chunk of text. The link will suffice so that other others can verify it. What is the source for this material, bruinalumni.com? -Willmcw 08:56, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

I think Villaraigosa is lying when he says that he renounces MECha. I live in Los Angeles County and I have noticed that Villaraigosa is a staunch supporter of illegal immigrants. He doesn't seem to pay enough attention to any other group besides Hispanics. -Blau

Yes, apparently bruinalumni.com. [1] Please do not cut and paste material from other websites into Wikipedia. We need to make original contributions, or obtain a GFDL license from the copyright holder. Let's just add a link to the site. Cheers, -Willmcw 08:59, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

a run on! pathetic - agreed re the massive text pasting, just getting the source out in full to help - however his early bio is a complete cut & paste job by others it's plastered all over the net - look the point is that you don't need a clearance or need to confirm the bruin sources villaraigosa admits it - however for you now to ask for the source of the bruin article is absurd because i'm assuming you visited the site by now...there's a picture of him w/ mecha! what's the big deal so the guy was in a nut org. he has renounced them! why aren't you proud of that?

well some of us looked up run-ons (warriners) and found that it's more accurate name, "comma fault", are two complete sentences seperated by a comma instead of a conjunction, semi-colon or period - it was also noted that it's more of a stylistic problem than grammatical -

Your grammar, spelling, punctuation, and capitalization are beautiful. Forget I mentioned it. Cheers, -Willmcw 04:48, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Here's a link to La Voc de Aztlan claiming pride in the fact that he did NOT repudiate MEChA. http://www.aztlan.net/alcalde_de_los_angeles.htm Read it completely and know the truth.

For the record, aztlan.net is not a reputable source.--Rockero 20:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Antonio Villar

How about including the fact that his birth name is not villaraigosa? --Jorobeq 00:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

That's a great idea. You'll see that we've done so already. Thanks, -Willmcw 23:16, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I see that now. --Jorobeq 00:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Names, the birth name should be in the lead section, so I've added it there, on the model of the Bill Clinton example in the MoS. This creates duplication with the pre-existing information in the "Biography" section. The duplication may be justified as helping to avert confusion, so I've left it in, but I don't feel strongly either way about whether the second reference should be deleted. JamesMLane t c 18:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Here's more on his name change: Man files lawsuit to take wife's name By GREG RISLING, Associated Press Writer]:

"Couples who want to hyphenate or combine their names also must endure the lengthy court procedures in California. One of the more notable examples was Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who went to court to fuse his last name, Villar, with his wife's, Raigosa, when they married in 1987."

I'd like to add the info by date order, but it looks like this probably fits into the middle of the paragraph on People's College of Law. ^BlankVerse 07:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Divorce

I propose having a separate article within his biography about his affair with Mirthala Salinas.

Please sign your additions to the talk page (by signing in and adding four "~" signs after your text) so that it is clear who has made what argument.

I don't think that there is a need for a separate article or section for the Salinas controversy, but I do think that it would be good for the article if a "Controversies" section was added or a separate article on controversies concerning Villaraigosa was created, where such issues could be detailed without them grabbing too much space in the original article (this has certainly been done with many other controversial public figures). Sarnalios 20:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Sarnalios. A controversies section with his affair & La Raza and Mecha connections would clean up that info from the other sections. I would do it myself but I can't seem to figure out how. :O Ryratt 01:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

The "reputation" section could be re-worked, since it is mostly a criticism section already. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 03:50, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

While the issue of Villaraigosa's affair(s) is a hot topic right now, I don't think that it should be given its current weight as the only subheading to the Biography section. In my opinion it would be more appropriate to have a short mention of the filing for divorce in the Biography section and then the rest of the information on the affair(s) as part of a "Criticism" or "Controversy" heading, including the criticism currently at the end of the Reputation section. Sarnalios 23:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Esperanza High School

I can't find an "Esperanza High School" in Los Angeles. Maybe it existed previously, but closed its doors, or maybe it had a different name. There is an Esperanza High School in Anaheim, part of the Placentia School Distrist. The wikipage Esperanza High School (Placentia, California) doesn't mention Villar/Villaraigosa's name, even as an attendee (vs. alum).

He didn't attend Esperanza High School. He attended Roosevelt High School; I have changed the page to reflect this, with a citation from the New Yorker.--Gloriamarie 17:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

NPOV and other problems

There seems to be NPOV problems in minor doses throughout the article. "Long career" in the intro. Lots of policy talk that ends with "will cause X" when there is no guarantee that it would. The reputation section, as a title of a section, is sort of questionable. There is at least one sentence with "Villaraigosa believes" which is also questionable wording, potentially not NPOV or at least not encyclopedic. The sourcing is really lacking. The introduction needs to be expanded. The ethics section is too short or needs to be added to another section. There is no coverage of his Assembly career in which he was Speaker. Just some ideas to make the article better. Good luck.User:calbear22 (talk) 21:45, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Early life: "had a difficult childhood." No source. Not letting facts speak for themselves.User:calbear22 (talk) 22:10, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Please add new campaign website link

{{editsemiprotected}}Antonio Villaraigosa's mayoral campaign website

Sfbrentb (talk) 23:30, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Done —Ms2ger (talk) 19:34, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Commentary and analysis

Let's leave the analysis and commentary for professional pundits, please. This article contains too few sources for the material contained in it. We'll need to pare it down if we caan't substantiate this material. -Will Beback 23:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

The AP is reporting that he has two children "from previous relationships" before he met his wife. I think that should be in his biography. It speaks to his character.

Uh, no it doesn't. Plenty of local, state and National politicians have been previously married, but it doesn't factor into their "character".

He wasn't "married" previously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avocats (talk • contribs) 08:19, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

The election is over.

 No need for website.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avocats (talk • contribs) 03:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 

SCF

I believe that the decision here was out of the mayor's jurisdiction, so I don't see why the issue is even relevant to his bio, especially not in this detail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avocats (talk • contribs) 19:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

(moved from main article space)

In June 2006, the mayor's reputation took a hit when he stood by and allowed the eviction of the immigrant farmers at the South Central Farm. It is reported that, "At three a.m. on the morning of June 13, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's department arrived at the farm, fully surrounding it by four a.m. At five a.m., the sheriffs entered the farm, giving the occupants 15 minutes to evacuate. At that point, most of the occupants of the land left, with a few verbal skirmishes reported. According to news reports, 39 people were arrested or taken into custody. Actress Daryl Hannah was removed from the walnut tree in which she and another tree-sitter had been protesting the eviction. It was not immediately clear whether or not Hannah was arrested."

From Villaraigosa's press release:

As you know, this morning (6.13.06), Sheriff's deputies began evicting farmers and activists at the South Central Farm. Today's evictions are unfortunate and come at the end of a tumultuous turn of events that at times was not always discussed in public due to the nature of real estate negotiations and the discussions that various parties were having with the property owner. In light of today's events and the fact that it appears that the owner will not accept a proposal that meets his asking price of $16 million - I felt it was important to brief you today. Today's events are unfortunate, disheartening and unnecessary. After years of disagreement over this property we had all hoped for a better outcome. I'd like to be clear about what has transpired. The property owner asked for $16 million * and last week, after 10 months of negotiations and efforts by my staff and others from the Trust for Public Land and the Annenberg Foundation * a proposal for a full-price, $16 million purchase was made by the Annenberg Foundation to the property owner. The foundation expressed a clear, sincere interest and commitment by its trustees to acquire the property for $16 million dollars. This morning, in a conversation with the property owner I reiterated my confidence in and support for the Annenberg purchase. Even after meeting his asking price, Mr. Horowitz told me that he would not sell the property to the Trust for Public Lands and the Annenberg Foundation. Everyone involved who cares about this garden and who cares about the farmers who have built an oasis in a sea of industry and concrete has done everything possible to meet the property owner's demands. First it was about price, well*. we met his price. He set the bar very high and we met it. Now the bar has been moved. I understand a businessman's need to invest and make a profit. I also have a high respect for and will defend property rights. That is the spirit under which we all operated when trying to negotiate and resolve this issue. But I also believe that we are called upon by a sense of community and civic duty to do the just and right thing. I had hoped that the landowner would have heeded that call. For those who say that there is no plot of land for urban farming in South LA, you should know that the City will continue plans to relocate farmers to an alternate 7.8 acre site, which has the capacity to house 200 garden plots. Already, 30 farmers have been allowed to begin cultivating the land located at 111th St & Avalon. We want to make sure the farmers are properly relocated. In addition, there are about 100 more plots located around the City that we have identified for community gardens." End comments.

Who is saying the mayor's reputation is suffering? Maybe we should move the mayor's statement to wikisource? Does it hold press releases?--Rockero 03:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

i would not say the reputation is "suffering". Reputation can be good or bad.

03:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. To say that his reputation is suffering assumes the point of view that the eviction is "bad" thing. If somebody says his reputation is suffering (like a poll, perhaps, linking a drop in numbers to action at the farm?), then by all means it should be included. But his simple statement about the affair --and he will have many statements about many issues, which is why I suggest moving it to wikisource-- is not necessarily a statement on his reputation.--Rockero 05:28, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It isn't clear what more the mayor could have done in this matter. Without a poll it's POV/NOR to suggest that public opinion has changed about him. In any case, the press release shouldn't be in the article If we don't think it will be available in the future, and think we'll want to consult it again, then Wikisource would be the place for it. I believe that press releases are automatically public domain (but you'd better check). -Will Beback 05:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I rephrased and moved the press release to wikisource, where we should begin putting all his press releases. Only thing is, I couldn't find the statement on the mayor's website, and all I could find online were quotes from the statement in the press, not the whole thing. Can anyone identify the original source of the statement?--Rockero 16:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs

The article needs updating. Those aren't the only "affairs" he has been up to. 72.194.119.243 00:06, 6 July 2007 (UTC)John D.

This is more like a review of his passport than a list of concrete accomplishments. Is there a cite for the $300 million direct investment?

Avocats (talk) 22:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Last paragraph under "reputation" removed

That section was not relevant to "reputation" as it contained POV and somewhat ethnic slanderous comments by Conservative/Right Wing KFI radio hosts "John & Ken". Their commentaries cannot be listed as "reputation" based evidence. If that is the case then that section would have to include numerous comments from "supporters" of Villaraigosa, but of course that would be POV based commentary which is what we are avoiding in the first place in the main article. --Bourbon King 21:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I wonder why this article completely fails to mention that he has been and presumably still is a member of a violent, racist organization (considered a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League). [2] Peoplesunionpro (talk) 12:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

No, the ADL doesn't consider it a hate group. You can look up MEChA's wikipedia page if you want to verify that.--Bourbon King (talk) 18:27, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The article says "Villaraigosa was a leader of MEChA at UCLA." ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:49, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't Villaraigosa's leadership of MECha at UCLA be included in the "Early years and education" section? That would seem like a fitting part of the article to place information about his activities at UCLA. Sarnalios (talk) 00:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

That makes sense. I think biographies should be chonological as much as possible. I've made the move. 01:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Will Beback (talk • contribs)

Non-Neutral Point of View

This page is constantly being whitewashed by somebody to the point where some portions of it make little sense.

For example, the Animal Services section now reads: During the election, Villaraigosa appeared before a coalition of animal rights activists and pledged if elected he would implement a no-kill policy for Animal Services and fire General Manager Guerdon Stuckey, an appointee of former Mayor Hahn.

That is all it says. It means nothing. Why is it even there?

At one time, this section read:

During the election, Villaraigosa appeared before a coalition of animal rights activists and pledged if elected he would implement a no-kill policy for Animal Services and fire General Manager Guerdon Stuckey, an appointee of former Mayor Hahn. Stuckey earned the ire of animal rights activists for what they considered to be his lack of experience, a bungled city spay/neuter contract, refusal to cooperate with the Los Angeles Animal Commission and excessive euthanasia of animals held by Animal Services. Stuckey's supporters claimed that he had been reducing the number of animals killed in the city every year. After the animal community caused an onslaught of negative press about the mayor's failure to keep his promise, Villaraigosa fired Stuckey. Stuckey appealed the firing to the City Council and threatened a lawsuit. The council awarded Stuckey a $50,000 consulting fee with the agreement that there would be no lawsuit. Sympathy for Stuckey by some council members was partly in reaction to a campaign against Stuckey by some that included a smoke bomb and picketing. In addition, there was concern for racial discrimination because Stuckey is black. Villaraigosa then appointed Ed Boks to the General Manager position. [35] An August 12, 2008 Los Angeles Times article describes animal advocates' concern regarding staff cuts that will have a disproportionate impact on 154 animal technicians and the 2,400 animals they care for. "Although Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa planned to cut 767 jobs this year, the shelter workers may end up being the only people to lose jobs at City Hall. In other departments, workers whose jobs were eliminated could be moved to other departments where their skills could be used...[T]he cuts meant more than just lost jobs. Thousands of animals would suffer as well." [36] Ironically, City Controller Laura Chick notes that the City of Los Angeles "is losing out on millions of dollars by not enforcing existing laws and collecting fees and fines, such as with dog licenses." Further, after an audit, Chick claims that the Los Angeles Animal Services Department "has no plan to educate the public regarding mandatory sterilization and how they can comply. In fact, the City Council instituted a six-month grace period till the ordinance goes into effect this October to give the Department the opportunity to prepare the public. Now on the eve of its enactment, the Department has done little to promote awareness or compliance with the law,” said Chick.[2] April 24, 2009 Villaraigosa's appointed General Manager Ed Boks was forced to resign after City Council demanded that he be fired because of poor performance and legal scandals. [37] A New York City judge ruled that Ed Boks had racially discriminated against an African American man whom he fired when he was the General Manager of New York City Animal Care and Control. [38] The City of LA then settled a sexual harassment claim against Boks and the City by Mary Cummins a female employee and volunteer. [39]

Perhaps some of the above text should not be included, but to yank all of it to the point that it becomes nonsense is not proper at all, and contrary to the spirit of wikipedia, not only as an unbiased source, but as an information resource.

I also verified a "failed verification" tag after finding the quoted statement in the refered document. Disputed verification referred to the sentence "The mayor also campaigned last fall for two education bond measures that will increase the size of property tax bills over the next decade." Referring document found at http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/23/local/me-fees23 states, "The mayor also campaigned last fall for two education bond measures that will increase the size of property tax bills over the next decade."

There are similar examples. I have placed a POV flag on the page until the matter is resolved.

thank you

wikigratia

Wikigratia (talk) 05:34, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Updated

Updated verifiable sections for accuracy, added references and checked references. Unverified original research in the pothole section was not removed. Wikigratia (talk) 22:35, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Updated

Removed content referenced by improper links, per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links specifically, "..links to websites that require readers to register or pay to view content are normally not acceptable in the External links section." Wikigratia (talk) 22:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Updated

Villaraigosa did not himself receive the Seven Seals Award. He accepted it "on behalf of the City of Los Angeles for its support of those serving in the guard and reserve." The section refers to awards granted to Villaraigosa, not to the City of Los Angeles. The information was incorrect, was not substantiated by any authoritative source, and was removed. Wikigratia (talk) 22:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Ethics

Villaraigosa's first act as Mayor was requiring all city commissioners, his entire staff, and all city employees to sign an ethics pledge.

Why was this deleted? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

What "ethics" pledge? Was this something already required of commissioners, staff, and employees? The statement was meaningless without more. Avocats (talk) 03:48, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The ethics pledge was reinstated without comment. The citation has no reference to the ethics pledge. All city employees have long been required to take an ethics pledge before assuming office, even volunteers. The ethics pledge line was removed. Wikigratia (talk) 20:43, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Never passed bar exam?

Resolved

According to this, which doesn't have a valid cite; "After UCLA, Villaraigosa attended the People's College of Law (PCL), an unaccredited law school that promotes labor union causes in Los Angeles. Villaraigosa's desire to practice law has been prevented due to his repeated inability to pass the Bar Exam, which he has failed four times.[6]"

Cite is circular. Ebrockway (talk) 20:24, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Overall Content

This page is a hodge-podge of headings that reflect campaign promises and plans, without much in the way of real accomplishments. There is meticulous detail in some areas and nothing in other. The Animal Services controversy is a good example-it hardly arises to a footnote in terms of importance and relevance. I tried to remove several of the prospective campaign "promise" type headings, but the page is really a mess still.

Avocats (talk) 18:50, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Isn't there anyone capable of updating this article that is capable of being completely (ok, almost) unbiased towards this individual? The article has information as of 2009, it is 2012, isn't it? And a lot of it is rather derrogatory and in an unbiased fashion. I checked out three references and two are unreadable now. One of them, either 3. or 4., can't remember, has many sentences/paragraphs practically verbatim from the article and the article seems written with a biased slant. An article was in Yahoo today and the commenters on the forum are extremely hateful. I can't believe that this Mayor has done nothing worthwhile for three terms. Mylittlezach (talk) 19:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Doubts

I have some questions about this article. For example:

(1) So this guy was supposedly paralyzed? Is he still paralyzed? If not, why not?

(2) How and why did he change his name?

(3) Why are none of his marital infidelities mentioned under controversies?

(4) So his father was supposedly born in 1912 or earlier? Really? --Filll (talk | wpc) 17:35, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

1 "briefly paralyzed" pretty clearly means that he is no longer, at least from that cause.

2 Answered in the Children subsection of the Personal Life section. He married and added his wife's surname to his.

3 Mentioned in the Divorce subsection of the Personal Life section. Feel free to add anything else you think is relevant that can be sourced.

4 It says "His father immigrated approximately one hundred years ago" and you tagged it with a citation needed. That's a good tag, and I doubt many would argue if you just deleted that factoid now. Meters (talk) 18:02, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

The article stated that Villaraigosa was the third Mexican-American elected to city office in Los Angeles. That is clearly not the case. For instance, Edward Roybal was elected to the City Council in 1949, and Richard Alatorre in 1985. Villaraigosa was the third Mexican-American to be elected mayor. Activist (talk) 06:03, 5 October 2012 (UTC) 05:55, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

2012 DNC controversy

I would hope some editor would comment on Villagairosa's repeated mishandling of the question on the motion to amend the 2012 Democratic National Convention's platform on inserting the words "God," in the platform and support for Israel. Activist (talk) 06:21, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

I know it's just my opinion, but I think this incident is why people outside of southern California know who he is. I'm shocked there's no section on this. It is arguably the most publicized and controversial thing his name has ever been attached to. Is there a reason this isn't mentioned on the page? 2012 November 4— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.148.192.96 (talk • contribs) 01:50, 5 November 2012‎

Added section 5.3 2012 DNC Controversy. No details, just the basic facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.148.192.96 (talk) 06:27, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the section. You'll need to cite reliable sources so that we can edit it down from the POV version you just added. (It "sounded about" is not objective, for example. To call it a "controversy", we'll need independent reliable sources calling it that.) - SummerPhD (talk) 06:36, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, SummerPhD, there was nothing POV about it, that's why it was so short. It was just a description of what was broadcast, no editorializing. Considering that it's been so long since the event occurred, maybe you should contribute something about it to the article instead of taking things down. I admit things like "sounded about" weren't phrased the way things on Wikipedia are usually phrased, and I'd hope the community can take what I wrote and improve it, but just taking it down isn't productive. I didn't know what to call it other than a controversy, but from the talk page it was clear something needed to be said, since no reason was given as to the lack of mention of this incident. http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/forbidden-table-talk/2012/sep/9/dnc-melodrama-day-two-thirds-wasnt-two-thirds/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/08/antonio-villaraigosa-dnc-platform_n_1867259.html http://atr.rollcall.com/dnc-amends-platform-amid-controversy/ There's three sources to get you started. 2 December 2012— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.148.192.96 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 2 December 2012‎

Yes, there is something POV about it. Your addition read: " ===2012 DNC Controversy=== Villaraigosa was chairman of the 2012 Democratic National Convention. A vote was held at the convention to amend the original party platform by adding a reference to "God" and affirm that "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel." A two-thirds "aye" vote by delegates was required to pass the amendment. On the initial vote, the "nos" were either more numerous or louder than the "ayes." Villaraigosa had the delegates shout their votes a second time. The second vote sounded about even, but not the required two-thirds. A third attempt also failed to get a definitive two-thirds. Villaraigoas stated "In the opinion of the chair, two-thirds have voted in the affirmative." Thus passing the amendment against the votes of the delegates. This resulted in booing and objections from the audience. "

The problems:

• We need a source calling this a "controversy".
• "the "nos" were either more numerous or louder than the "ayes."" - In whose opinion?
• "The second vote sounded about even, but not the required two-thirds." - In whose opinion?
• "also failed to get a definitive two-thirds" - How do we know it wasn't "definitive"? We don't. This is someone's opinion. Whose? Is this opinion widely held or is it strictly the opinion of an editor at some paper?
• "passing the amendment against the votes of the delegates" - Again, we do not know this: it is someone's opinion that this is the case.
• "booing and objections" - This is a common occurrence when some members dislike a decision. Was this a few people? A lot? How do we know?

In any case, if you or anyone else would like to re-add this, have at it. Please note that the sources above are editorials, requiring a bit of finesse in our use of them. If you aren't sure how to use them, add what you think is right, with citations and more than enough people will go to town on "tweeking" it. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 07:16, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Well how about we get a video, put it on Wikimedia or somewhere else acceptable, and just link to it so there's no editorializing? It would be better than nothing. I at least wrote something, imperfect as it may have been. Here's a link to the video from ABC News <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8BwqzzqcDs>. So what about just posting that and saying "At the 2012 DNC, this happened." Short, sweet, no opinions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.148.192.96 (talk) 07:34, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Several problems here: We cannot take a video from just anywhere. The ABC video, for example, is copyrighted. Next, there's the question of what material we would include this way: Those opposed to, for example, a particular commentator/politician/etc. see "controversies" in numerous statements. If we could find a way to do what you are suggesting, the articles on those commentators/politicians/etc. would be nothing but long lists of links to isolated statements. To avoid this, we would eventually simply link to every recording even made of that person. More to the point, your suggestion misunderstands what Wikipedia is supposed to be. As an encyclopedia, we aim to summarize what reliable sources have to say about a subject, not merely reproduce primary, raw data. In the present case, you seem to believe a significant number of people felt this occurrence was a significant controversy re Villaraigosa. Linking to a video does not convey this. - SummerPhD (talk) 07:46, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, that does help me understand. I don't know what others think, I just didn't know what word to use other than "controversy." Whatever it's called it was a significant event in his political career. He was chairing a party convention, that's a major gig for a politician. And he presided over a amendment vote that was so close he had to have the delegates vote three times, whatever we call it that isn't business as usual. And since they had to vote three times in an attempt to determine if they had enough votes, it's pretty clear that it was not two-thirds. Maybe we could get someone to measure the decibels of audio on the votes to quantify it in an objective way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.148.192.96 (talk) 08:15, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Having someone measure the votes would be original research. We aim to summarize what independent reliable sources say about a subject, not to say anything new. The bare facts in your above paragraphs might be enough. "He chaired the party convention. He said the first vote wasn't clear enough and called for a second. He said that wasn't clear enough and called for a third. He said that vote was clear. Commentator X, in an editorial for newspaper Q said all three votes sounded too close to call." Something along those lines. (If you are going to cite editorials and such, though, make sure the sources are notable and link to them.) - SummerPhD (talk) 00:35, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

"First Amendment zone"

"Villaraigosa made up the term "First Amendment zone" to suppress media coverage of the Occupy raids."

• Inside The Frozen Zone: Death Of The First Amendment.91.39.113.206 (talk) 09:52, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Antonio Villaraigosa/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I fail to see what Villariagosa has to do with Mexico. He is not even first-generation immigrant, and he's certainly not the first mexican-American mayor. Avocats (talk) 18:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 18:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 08:02, 29 April 2016 (UTC)