Talk:Anyone (Justin Bieber song)

Deleted information about the song’s strong similarity to a Toto song

I discovered that the User Doggy54321 deleted worth mentioning information by claiming these information would come from a self-published source. This claim is evidently wrong . The information came from Rick Beato, a well known American musician, songwriter, audio engineer and record producer. He has a musical master's degree and is an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications. I demand to undelete the information and to check if the user Doggy54321 is a paid content creator for marketing the wikipedia sites he is mainly working on. DerArchitekt (talk) 22:31, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

According to recent interviews with Steve Lukather and Joseph Williams, the songwriters (David Paich and Joseph Williams) are looking into the matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jb1GNfh3sY 79.161.46.148 (talk) 00:19, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

• @DerArchitekt: Hi, it's Doggy54321. I did delete that information because it came from YouTube, a self-published source, which is generally not allowed on Wikipedia. If you could provide music-related reliable sources, such as Billboard, that detail Rick Beato as a subject-matter expert, that would be great, as that would allow me to see exactly what you are referring to. If you could please assume good faith when interacting with me and all other Wikipedia users in the future, that would also be great, as I don't appreciate being accused of paid editing, especially after reverting one contribution. Demanding is also not a good approach to take, as that implies that this is an urgent matter needing attention, and also establishes you as the "alpha" in this situation, neither of which are true. I don't think this is that urgent of a matter, and we are equals on Wikipedia. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 01:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC) (please ping on reply)

@Doggy54321: Hi, thanks for your reply. To make it short: 1. You did delete my added information without assuming good faith. 2. You are wrong that Youtube is generally a self-publishing source. 3. I know that professional editors never use Youtube as source, but you are wrong that citing Youtube is generally not allowed. Please read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Video_links 4. Wikipedia itself cites Rick Beato as subject matter expert. Please read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Beato 5. Furthermore Rick Beato‘s expertise is already cited in hundreds of Wikipedia articles (also including links to Youtube), f.i. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Nation_Army, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Gonna_Let_You_Go_(Sérgio_Mendes_song), https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clocks_(song) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydian_mode 6. I read that you edit articles related to Taylor Swift, Little Mix, Ariana Grande, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Ava Max, Blackpink, BTS, Selena Gomez, Cardi B, Dua Lipa, Olivia Rodrigo, Drake, Shawn Mendes, Justin Bieber, Demi Lovato, Billie Eilish, Maroon 5, J. Cole, Nicki Minaj, Lorde, Doja Cat, Megan Thee Stallion, Halsey, Big Red Machine. Thanks to professional editors these articles belong to the most polished articles at Wikipedia. Anyway: Some of them contain links to Youtube as well and it´s fine. 7. Who has the most interest in deleting unpleasant information about an artist? The artist and his editors! DerArchitekt (talk) 15:02, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

@DerArchitekt: 1. I did assume good faith, which means I assumed you meant well, but your edit did not follow Wikipedia guidelines, so I reverted it. 2. YouTube is indeed a SPS, as anyone can upload a video. Therefore, it is generally unusable. If you look right under SPS, at a section called WP:ABOUTSELF, you will see that self-published sources, such as YouTube, Twitter and Instagram, may be used as sources of information about themselves. This means if Justin Bieber uploads a new song to YouTube, we can use that as a source. However, if Cardi B mentions Selena Gomez' birthday on Instagram, we cannot add that into an article, as Cardi is not Selena. The same thing applies here. 3. Per WP:VIDEOLINK, If using the link as a source to support article content, then you must establish that the uploader and the video meet the standards for a reliable source. 4-5. He may be a professional, but that doesn't mean his opinion is be all end all. As well, we have to make sure we don't give undue weight to his opinion. This means that we shouldn't state anything he says as a fact (so no "The song resembles "Going Home" by Toto, as someone could mistake that as a fact"), and we should be careful with how much we include. One sentence in a Critical reception section that says "American music professional Rick Beato thought that the song resembled 'Going Home' by Toto" would be enough. 6. Yes, that was pulled directly from my userpage. And yes, some of those include links to YouTube, but the links follow ABOUTSELF and SPS. 7. First off, I don't view sampling/interpolating as unpleasant, in fact I think it's pretty amazing how artists can take inspiration from other songs and make them their own. Second, I cannot work for Bieber, as that would mean I would have a conflict of interest and would need to stop editing his pages. However, I have stated before and will say it again: I do not work for Bieber, anyone on his team or anyone related to him. I do not know him at all. You repeatedly making these accusations is not assuming good faith, as you are accusing me of having a conflict of interest and continuing to edit articles related to Bieber, which is a serious violation of a Wikipedia policy. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 15:48, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

@Doggy54321: Hey Doggy54321, I stay to my opinion that Youtube is not solely a SPS. A huge amount of publishers (f.i. BBC, New York Times, Warner Music,...) use Youtube and can be used as source. And you had already to admit that selfpublishers like an artist can be used as source as well, when they share content about themselves. Anyway I appreciate your proposal under point 4-5. It´s always the best to concentrate on a constructive path to move forward. Because of new source material I suggest the following addition to this article: "In February 2021 american music professional Rick Beato compared the song with the Toto single "Going Home" from 1998 and expressed his opinion that the song’s choruses have the same key, melody and almost the same speed. A canadian radiostation brought this matter up as well. In May 2021 Toto´s founding member Steve Lukather accused Bieber in an interview of stealing the song." DerArchitekt (talk) 14:56, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@DerArchitekt: I agree that it is best to concentrate on a constructive path moving forward. I copyedited the text, here it is: "In February 2021, American music professional Rick Beato compared "Anyone" to "Goin' Home" (1998), a song by American rock band Toto. He expressed his opinion that the choruses of the songs are written in the same key, and the melody and tempo are almost the same. Canadian radio station CKDR-FM expressed a similar opinion. American guitarist and Toto's founding member Steve Lukather accused Bieber stealing "Goin' Home" in a May 2021 interview.". Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 15:13, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

@Doggy54321:Thanks as well! DerArchitekt (talk) 14:01, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

@DerArchitekt: You're welcome! D🐶ggy54321 ^{(let's chat!)} 14:06, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

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