Talk:Apkallu

Goat-fish

Apkallu described as human-fishes or humans, but by some association of Capricornus with Oannes, I here also mention ETCSL search for "goat-fish". Don't use in article unless Capricornus-Oannes connection can be externally cited! ... said: Rursus (^mbork³) 13:27, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Historical cross-reference

Are these the entities sought to be evoked in that fairly famous sculpture of the Assyrian priests (in bird costumes) pollinating a date palm? (see [1]) --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 21:11, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Apkallu artifact images recommended

This video (at 10:31) shows an artifact depicting the Seven Apkallu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYMNZHXSKPQ The location for the video is the Pergamon Museum in Berlin. It might be possible to hunt down more photos for posting to this wiki entry. 99.251.133.109 (talk) 13:49, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Banishment to Apsu

The wiki article cites the story Erra and Ishum or the Epic of Erra as a reference. In the myth section it is claimed that the Seven Sages/Apkallu/Craftsmen continued to teach mankind after the flood. However, the story of Erra and Ishum has Marduk, Ea and Erra repeatedly assert that Marduk banished them to Apsu (subaquatic) at the end of the Flood with the express command not to come back up again. My source for this is the translation of "Erra and Ishum" in "Myths from Mesoptamia, Creation, the Flood, Gilgamesh, and Others", by Stephanie Dalley, the revized edition of 2000, and the glossary under "Seven Sages" at the end of this book. Erra confronts Marduk and asks him why his finery and crown are dusty, and Marduk replies by claiming he is responsible for the Flood, and at the end of it, he could not undo the loss he inflicted upon humanity and he banished the Seven Sages (also called Craftsmen as an epiteth) to Ea's subaquatic ream Apsu, forbidding them to resurface. As they are necessary to keep his attire clean, their banishment is the reason why his attire is dusty after all that time. Hence in the story he ends his speech with "Where are the Seven Sages of the Apsu, the holy carp, ..." as a rhetorical question. He already gave the answer earlier in his speech, "I made those Craftsmen go down to the Apsu, and I said they were not to come back up." Later in the same story, Erra seeks Ea out who says, "Now, (it was) Prince Marduk who rose up, who told those craftsmen that they were not to come back up". At the end of Ea's speech we get te explanation that Ea was the one who "gave the Craftsmen a generous heart, and []-ed their base. He bestowed on them wisdom and made their handiwork beautiful. They made that finery radiant, and more choice (?) than before."

It seems to me that the myth section at least ought to mention that Marduk claims to have banished the divine Seven Sages to the subaquatic Apsu, instead of blatantly claiming they continued to help mankind after the Flood. According to the same book source in the glossary of it, some people were indeed granted the title "sage", but these were humans, and not to be confused with the divine banished Seven Sages. This distinction between divine seven sages that helped mankind before the Flood and the humans earning the title sage after the Flood is also not well clarified in the last section. And with regards to the various names, the article should mention the Apkallu or Abgal or Seven Sages are also referred to as the Craftsmen --sweetsunray_ssr (talk) 8:25, 8 May 2017 GMT+1 (UTC)

Berossos don't call the fish men Apkallu

In the fragments of Berossos the term "Apkallu" doesn't appear. He calls the fish men "Anedoti" (singular Anedotos) the meaning of which is no more known. It seems that only the eagle men were Apkallu. 2003:F5:F718:1F00:B81F:B921:321E:865A (talk) 15:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)