Talk:Apostol Arsache

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved No compelling evidence provided for commonname move. Both titles are acceptable. Apostolos Arsakis should be redirected to Apostol Arsache - Mike Cline (talk) 16:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

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Apostol Arsache → Apostolos Arsakis – A search on Google Books reveals that "Apostolos Arsakis" is more common in English usage: 20 hits [1] (the search returns 22, but two are in French) versus 5 [2] (the search shows 13 results, but 8 are actually Romanian). Athenean (talk) 22:11, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

• Support: It appears that the proposed form is the most popular in English (and western) literature (google web gives a much more clear situtiation on Arsakis vs Arsache, with more than 3v1 in favor of Arsakis). It's also interesting that these few 'Arsache' hits, just mention his name as part of huge lists of politicians.Alexikoua (talk) 23:59, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
• Disagree: the Google Books specimen is too small to make any generalizations on wider usage, and he is certainly more prominent in a Romanian context, having served as Prime Minister, than as a benefactor in Greece. Constantine ✍ 12:58, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
• Comment: What's also interesting enough is that contemporary (19th century) English literature doesn't mention 'Arsache' a sinlge time [[3]], while 'Arsakis' is the only name form [[4]], whether he is mentioned as Romanian or Greek or both.
• Support -- He was born in Albania; was a minister in Roumania; and finally became a benefactor of Greece. The question is in which role he was most notable; it is primaily one of language. He was an ethic Greek and so would have called himself Apostolos. It is a balanciung issue, but in my view the Greek version should be primary with teh Roumanian one as a redirect. Any Ghit or other count will be language dependent, so that we may be counting how active the intenet is in differnet countries. Whatever the outcome, a redirect for the other version should be retianed. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:06, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Comment Well, he was an ethnic Greek, and apparently identified with the country; however the majority of his life and his life's work was spent in Romania. In these cases, the name used in the adopted country is preferred. We use John Aniston, Elia Kazan and Alexander Payne for instance, not their original forms. Constantine ✍ 19:53, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: I have to notice a couple of differences in comparison with the above examples: we use the English alternative names (this is the English wikipedia and these persons live/d in English speaking countries) and these names are widely established in English literature and web. On the other hand Arsache has virtually '0' hits in 19th century and just a few in 20th cent. English bibliography. It's quite obvious why the 'Arsache' version is scarcely found, since he was a prime ministey only for 15 days. Also, no wonder he is the last Prime Minister of Romania to have an article in English wikipedia.Alexikoua (talk) 23:13, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

The examples are used are indicative, not exhaustive, but the general principle applies whether we are talking about a Greek immigrant to the US, a Russian immigrant to France, or an Italian immigrant to China. I wouldn't have a problem with the move, but a prime minister, even for 15 days, as well as foreign minister for six months, is still more notable a role than as a benefactor. As for the Ghits, the number is too small to really know, and several of the "Arsakis" hits are written by Greeks or from a purely Greek context (i.e. his work as a benefactor), so the disparity isn't that great either. Constantine ✍ 08:56, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose: I don't have a strong view, I would be ok either way, but I do think he was more prominent as Prime Minister of Romania, than as a benefactor in Greece.--Codrin.B (talk) 18:54, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
• Support per nominator. Macedonian (talk) 09:48, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Ethnicity

Anyone has any reference beside Greek newspapers that he was Greek? Emigration to Romania was quite common for Orthodox Albanians of those times. Because he was given honorary citizenship that does not make him an ethnic Greek (or Northern Epirote). Mondiad (talk) 00:58, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

The Academy of Athens, isn't a newspaper. In general if a source is Greek is doesn't mean it should be removed without second though, as a result of a personal pov judgment.Alexikoua (talk) 20:46, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

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