Talk:Appalachian Granny Magic

Status of Appalachian Granny Magic

It's starting to look more and more like an original thought essay! This article is not verifiable and needs citations urgently. Nk.sheridan   Talk 00:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

It looks as if I got stuck holding the bag. My additions were in response to an edit I made on "Cherokee" complaining of a link to this article from that one. Since I got shot down in those efforsts, I opted to help add information to this article to improve it. I will add the citations, but since I was originally in favor of it's deletion, it's an odd position to be in. Odestiny (talk) 19:36, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

The Moytoy and Carpenter history and information is almost entirely from the Wikipedia articles on these persons.Odestiny (talk) 19:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

This article is a joke, right? Lots of silly claims, and I don't know whether to laugh, cry or be deeply offended. I had two Appalachian grannies, and neither of them was a witch.

• The article starts with the statement that Appalachian witches were also called "water witches" and a link is provided to an article on dowsing that mentions everything from Uri Geller to the U.S. Marines, but doesn't mention the Appalachians. I know there was dowsing in the hills, but "energy vortexes"?
• The article says "the deities they worshiped remained part of their faith and did not fade into a mythic memory"? The only deities around were the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and don't tell any of those mountain-bred fundamentalist Christians otherwise.
• Yes, there were/are many superstitious beliefs and practices, but they no more involve witchcraft and plural deities than do knocking on wood or throwing a penny in a well. I've heard many of the old folks recite the portents of death-watch beetles, birds getting in the house, and owls hooting in a tree. I had an uncle who could "witch warts". But these were all superstitions, not some ancient religious practice.
• The article wanders all over the place. First we are told these are Scottish/Irish traditions that survived in the Appalachians, and next we are told of some English bloke in Jamestown on the Virginia coast who learned his schtick from the Shawnee Indians, who lived nowhere near Jamestown in the 1630s. Then the Shawnee mysteriously turn into the Cherokee, and we've forgotten all about the Scotch-Irish and are firmly talking about Native Americans. Then we turn a corner and meet fairy folk and leprechauns, are told that clogging is a witchcraft ritual, and that folks in the hills observed Samhain by singing Robbie Burns ditties.

How do we delete this drivel before someone reads it and believes it? Eastcote (talk) 23:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Initially I wanted simply to get this article deleted, but then, why not use the article for education? That's what this is about, right? I deleted much of the unsubstantiated silliness, and added some referenced information. I let stand the text related to cross-cultural exchange between Native Americans and European mountain settlers, as this is not my area of expertise, and there might be something to it. I'll look into it more. I will add more as time allows concerning folk beliefs and practices, with references. Eastcote (talk) 04:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

This is NOT educational! There is so much misinformation in this article I wouldn't know where to start deleting. It's an embarrassment. I would suggest changing the title to something referring to superstitions in the Appalachians rather than the (IMHO) silly title it has now. Appalachian Granny Magic, indeed! Vamelungeon (talk) 17:12, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes to deletion!! Eastcote (talk) 22:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

As a folklorist, I can confirm that I have heard the term Granny Magic used interchangeably with Pow-wow (folk magic), Hex-work or Hexan ( a type of folk magic), water witching, Fairy Doctors and other similar terms. It's not a term that is in common use. Wikipedia is pretty thin on articles regarding regional variants of Folk Magic. My suggestion would be to simply roll the mention of the term in with Folk Magic and note that it is a regional term for practitioners of those arts. That might solve the problem for now.LiPollis (talk) 01:19, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'm not a folklorist, but I'm from this region, and while there are "grannies", I have never heard the term "granny magic". It is not a regional term that I'm aware of for practitioners of "those arts", whatever "those arts" are. Not in East Tennessee, North Georgia, or northeast Alabama, the areas my kin live. There were women we called witches when I was growing up, but they were just private old women that lived the old way people used to without plumbing or electricity. There is no witchcraft or magic "tradition" that this article talked about originally. Yes, there is dowsing, wart-removing mumbo-jumbo, and other superstitions, but they are not a body of "beliefs" called "Appalachian Granny Magic". The article as I originally found it was full of leprechauns and other such silliness that has no place in Appalachia. I tried to "improve it", but I agree it simply needs to be deleted. There is already an article on Granny women, which covers the concept nicely, and without all the silly witchy hoodoo that was in the original article. "Appalachian Granny Magic" sounds more like a modern eclectic Wiccan invention to me. Once again - outsiders trying to stamp their silly notions on Appalachian culture. Eastcote (talk) 01:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Without passing any judgement on these beliefs & practices as mere superstitions, I do agree that the article on Granny Women would be a better place to move any useful information. The inclusion of the word "magic" into these specific traditions is most likely an artifact of the promotion of Wicca. As I mentioned above, numerous terms in use historically describe these practices which usually center on midwifery, herbal healing and the occasional spell of protection. If they were called witches, it was usually not by themselves. I suggest a merger with Granny women.LiPollis (talk) 12:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)