Talk:Armed Forces of the Argentine Republic

Untitled

Does anyone else think that the military dictatorship should be mentioned on this page? It does seem relevant to an article called Military of Argentina. Two16 09:23 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)

1980s transition to democracy

I just undid a revision here. Although Argentina was clearly well-defeated in the war, the tone of the change was neither encyclopedic nor neutral - more of a cheering section, so back it went.--MartinezMD (talk) 02:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Operacion 90

Is this someone trying to be sarcastic? A "large-scale" military maneuver consisting of only 10 soldiers? If no one corrects it, I will delete "large scale" since it is inconsistent without an explanation (perhaps the rest of the operation was large?).--MartinezMD (talk) 06:23, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

History and the military

I've just reverted 200.123.143.158 (talk · contribs) on history of the military. Large changes such as blanking an entire paragraph are to be discussed in this talk page first. Besides, an article about the military in Argentina that overlooks the history of coups d'état of this country is clearly lacking... especially considering that the main occupation of the Argentine military between 1955 and 1983 (with the exception of Malvinas, of course) has been precisely producing one coup after another. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 01:41, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Foreign Relations

Much of the info recently added to this article would be more than welcome by the poor Foreign relations of Argentina.Mariano(t/c) 13:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

The "French connexion"

We cant have more than half of the article about this, also this subject is in Argentine Army too. I suggest move all that to a separate article a left here a short footnote Jor70 03:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

the Falklands war 1982

why is there no mention at all of this conflict and its effects on the Argentine military after the collapse of the dictatorship(military)

- Why do you think? The most notable Argentine operation omitted completely... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.71.189.67 (talk) 17:56, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Why would an invasion of another country "bolster its dwindling legitimacy"? Popularity maybe, but not legitimacy. However attacks on stronger countries usually end badly for those hoping to improve their popularity by an act of aggression. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 01:24, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Argentine Marine Corps (COIM) is not a "Branch of Service" of the Argentinian Military.

As stated in the current wikiarticle about the argentinian marine corps:

"The Argentine Marine Corps, in Spanish Infantería de Marina Armada Republica Argentina, or IMARA, The Naval Infantry of the Argentine Armada, also Commando of the Infantry of Marina of Argentine Navy, (COIM), is one of the four operational commands of the Navy."

Hence, unless there is documented evidence to support keeping it as a "branch of service", I propose to remove the link to the "Argentine Marine Corps" from that list.
Kind regards, DPdH (talk) 09:29, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Please also note, in the "Introduction" and the "Structure" section of this article the Marine Corps is not among the Armed Forces (responsible to Defence Ministry) or the Security Forces (responsible to Interior Ministry). Hence there is no reason to consider it a separate, independent service branch. Regards, DPdH (talk) 09:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Why the "History" section is focused only in the period post-WW2?

Albeit what's written in this section seems to be adequate (haven't yet checked relevant sourcing/referencing), I found a bit strange that nothing is said about the period before 1965 (which for the Army and Navy begins in the 1810's). Am I wrong, or this seems a bit biased? Can anyone please help improving this section? I don't have documented references handy to do it myself.
Thanks & Regards, DPdH (talk) 09:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction?

As user Mesoso2 pointed out, there is an apparent contradiction that might be caused by edition. Up to my knowledge, the PNA and the GN ("para-military" branches) are under control of the Interior Ministry, and the Army, Navy and Air Force are controlled by the Defence Ministry. Time provided, will research a bit using the official websites of the Argentinean forces and will try to resolve this contradiction.
Thanks & regards, DPdH (talk) 03:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I just don't see what the contradiction here would be. Both the Argentine Naval Prefecture and the Argentine National Gendarmerie, as paramilitary forces, are fully capable of performing military duties, are (expected to be) assigned to the Ministry of Defence in case a war occurs and their function, organisation and training are similar to those of professional military forces. That's why they are, and have always been, considered part of Argentina's National Defence System. Perhaps you can point out what exactly the supposed contradiction here is. Until then though, I'll proceed to remove the contradiction note, as it has been a while since it was added there. If you have any objections, please provide us with a reasonable and clear explanation for adding it back. Thank you in advance. —Aucun effort n'est trop grand 01:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

HI, I didn't nave too much time to research on this, so it's still in my "to-do" list. A quick look to the law regulating the formation and opeation of the Argentine National Gendarmerie (pls see in the official ANG website: Ley 19349, unfortunately in spanish only) seems to indicate that ANG is still under the Argentine Army command. As this law is quite old (1971 - there was a De Facto government at that time, headed by General Lanusse) maybe the situation is not strictly that, need to check more in detail. The ANG now reports not to the Interior Ministry, but to the Justice, Security and Human Rights Ministry(see official website [1]), so maybe this also needs to be updated in the article. Anyway, let's leave this "contradiction issue" as it's now, for the time being.

By the way, there are no citations supporting your assertions. Maybe you (or somebody else) could kindly provide them?

Kind regards, DPdH (talk) 04:24, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Argentina's 1994 national constitution and subsequent laws prohibit the Argentine Army, as well as other branches of the Argentine Armed Forces, from participating in internal security affairs. That fact alone should be enough to tell that the 1971 law you mentioned is quite clearly no longer in effect, or at least not completely. Besides, although the information regarding the current dependence of the gendarmerie on either the interior or security ministries should be naturally updated, that's not really a contradiction of any sort. For citations supporting my assertions, please see Argentina's laws for regulating interior security, national defence and navigation, as well the official websites for both the Argentine National Gendarmerie and the Argentine Naval Prefecture. Cheers. —Aucun effort n'est trop grand 18:16, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Why only "Army" images?

I wonder why in an article about "all" the Argentine Armed Forces, only images from one of them (the Argentine Army) have been used to illiustrate it. IMHO, some pictures of elements of the other armed forces (Argentine Air Force, Argentine Navy, etc.) should be included, to make the article more "balanced".
Kind regards, DPdH (talk) 22:09, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Because no one has submitted them. You are free to add pictures from the other service branches but they have to be free/public domain photographs.--MartinezMD (talk) 23:59, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

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Subsection about future invasion of the Falkland Islands??

Hi, should we include a subsection about the Argentine's military preparation to reinvade the Falkland Islands? I believe that Argentina will make a second attempt when they feel they have enough forces to win! IQ125 (talk) 18:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

The prefectura and the Gendarmería aren’t Armed forces

These two forces are under the security ministry, no under the defence ministry, and in this article all the data is about the defence ministry Hehex2020 (talk) 20:40, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

The article says they are under the security ministry and you're simply wrong, the article doesn't say this is about the defence ministry. As noted in the article:

“ there are two security forces, controlled by the Ministry of Security, which can be mobilized in occasion of an armed conflict: the National Gendarmerie, a gendarmerie used to guard borders and places of strategic importance; and the Naval Prefecture, a coast guard used to protect internal major rivers and maritime territory. ”

(emphasis added)

Both organisations were mobilised for the Falklands War.

According to Argentine National Gendarmerie:

“ According to the Argentine Constitution, the armed forces cannot intervene in internal civil conflicts, so the Gendarmerie is subordinate to the Interior Ministry. It is defined as a civilian "security force of a military nature". It maintains a functional relationship with the Ministry of Defense, as part of both the National Defense System and the Interior Security System. It therefore maintains capabilities arising from the demands required by joint military planning with the armed forces. ”

(emphasis added)

Similarly according to Argentine Naval Prefecture:

“ According to the Argentine Constitution, the Armed Forces of the Argentine Republic cannot intervene in internal civil conflicts, so the Prefecture is defined as a civilian "security force of a military nature". It maintains a functional relationship with the Ministry of Defense, as part of both the National Defense System and the Interior Security System. It therefore maintains capabilities arising from the demands required by joint military planning with the armed forces. ”

So both are acknowledged as contributing to the defense of Argentina in time of war. WCM_email 00:25, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

So is needless put information about the ministry of security because in this article are information about the defence ministry. Hehex2020 (talk) 13:04, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

I disagree Hehex2020. I think WCM is correct. If the force has the mandate for national defense, it should be part of the article. In the US, the Coast Guard has a similar mandate, civilian duties in times of peace and military duties during times of war, which is included in the article Armed Forces of the United States as an example. MartinezMD (talk) 15:13, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Are similar, but for the Argentine government the gendarmería and the prefectura aren’t armed forces despite they can be mobilised during a war. For example there aren’t considered armed forces for the Spanish wikipedia article about this topic and there aren’t part of the joint staff. Hehex2020 (talk) 18:52, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

[2] and [3] both demonstrate they are armed forces. As already cited they are similar to the USCG, which is listed in the equivalent American article. WCM_email

But the argentine government doesn't recognise it as armed forces. they are police force which can be mobilised during a conflict Hehex2020 (talk) 12:10, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Which is precisely what the articles says, you appear incable of absorbing basic facts. WCM_email 12:33, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

They have the potential to be a part of the armed forces, similar to reserves. As long as the article is clear about it, they should be included for that reason. MartinezMD (talk) 14:47, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

I am don’t saying that these two forces can’t be used as armed forces but for the government they aren’t armed forces. I the case of put them as armed forces is needy to put information about the security ministry Hehex2020 (talk) 19:56, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Apparently the Argentine law says that legally they can be. Not necessarily that they are. I would imagine it would take war or a specific event that requires activating them as a designated national armed force. If further clarification is needed about the ministries in the article, add it. I think the comparison to the US Coast Guard is quite similar. It usually operates under the department (ministry) of Homeland Security, but during times of war command can be transferred to the Department of the Navy. MartinezMD (talk) 20:45, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

okey, I think you are correct Hehex2020 (talk) 21:28, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Look at this example United States Armed Forces, USCG is analogous to the Argentine National Gendarmerie and the Argentine Naval Prefecture. We already explain in the text they are part of the Minstry of Security, the addition to the infobox is not appropriate. I've given you an example, have a look at it and stop being so damn confrontational. WCM_email 16:03, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't see him as confrontational. Why don't you make an edit that will be satisfactory? MartinezMD (talk) 16:08, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, irritation creeping in from another article. He is editing along nationalist lines, whilst accusing other of nationalism. e.g. [4] WCM_email 16:22, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Is need to put that the prefectura and the gendarmería are armed forces only during a conflict also in the infobox, because a lot of people only read the infobox, also according to the Argentinan government this two forces aren’t armed forces all time. Hehex2020 (talk) 14:21, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

FYI ignoring you repeating the same point ad nauseun does not equate to consensus. WCM_email 16:25, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I don’t know why Are you so anger because I put an “only during conflict” Hehex2020 (talk) 16:53, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Angry* Hehex2020 (talk) 16:54, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

You might wish to look up Psychological projection, I am not angry. I reverted you because your edit made no sense. You are becoming a Time sink, I keep having to fix the mess you leave behind. WCM_email 17:03, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Does that addition bother you so much? Is little Hehex2020 (talk) 17:08, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Grettins. Mi name is Malvinero10 and I am from Argentina (I iniciated in es-wiki). Well, actually, the National Gendarmerie and the Naval Prefecture are part of the National Defence System, according to the National Defence Law (number 23.554), created in April 1988:

“ Article 9th: The members of the National Defence System are:

• a) Nation President
• b) National Defence Council
• c) National Congress
• d) Ministry of Defence
• e) Joint Staff (es:Estado Mayor Conjunto de las Fuerzas Armadas (Argentina))
• f) Army, Navy and Air Force
• g) National Gendarmerie and Naval Prefecture in in the terms prescribed by this Law.

Article 31th: As members of the National Defence System, the Argentine Naval Prefecture and the National Gendarmerie, will develop in their respectives organic structures, the human and material resources nedeed by the [...] control and surveillance of the fronteers, territorial waters of the Nation and custody of strategic objetives, and the compliance of the others functions emergent in this law and others legal provisions that apply.

The National Gendarmerie and the Argentine Naval Prefecture will depend organic and functionally of the Ministry of Defence, without prejudice to which, the time of war, its human and material resources or part of them, may be assigned to the respective strategic operational commands and territorial commands, as derived from the corresponding planning.

”

I am not sure yet.--Malvinero10 (talk) 02:58, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Title

The current title is incorrect. The Argentine Armed Forces has not a official name (Fuerzas Armadas de la Repúblcia Argentina do not exists). The only name in the country laws is “Armed Forces” (Fuerzas Armadas). So, I propose move this article to Argentine Armed Forces.--Malvinero10 (talk) 03:02, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I am not particularly bothered either way but the convention here is to disambiguate Armed Forces (seeing as every country in the world has Armed Forces). Hence Armed Forces of the Argentine Republic. WCM_email 09:31, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

The Argentine Nation Constitution says four times Fuerzas Armadas not saying the nationality.

The National Defence Law says 23 times Fuerzas Armadas, again, not saying the nationality.

To disambiguate, I propose Argentine Armed Forces (not Armed Forces of Argentina, in es-wiki we determinated that is incorrect.--Malvinero10 (talk) 17:45, 18 August 2020 (UTC)