Talk:Arnold Dunbar Smith

Heal's

@User:Seth Whales Thank you creating the page on Dunbar Smith. However you have stated that both Dunbar and Brewer designed Heal's, however when I recently re-wrote the Heal's page, all references about the 1913 new building did not mention Dunbar working on Heal's. The AHRnet reference you have used says buildings designed by the partnership, not by them both, while the only other reference I looked for this morning that mentions Dunbar is a recent Pevsner guide. Heal's own website does not mention Dunbar. I am not sure if it is accurate to record it here that he was involved with Heal's unless you can find a period article? It is known that buildings from a partnership can be designed by one of the architects in the partnership, but some writers see the partnership name and record it as all architects in the partnership.Davidstewartharvey (talk) 06:50, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi have done a further search and found Brewer's Obituary in RIBA journal which call's Heal's as Brewers work [1] Davidstewartharvey (talk) 07:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply, I take your point, but a partnership, especially a small one tends to include all partners in the design process, to either a greater or lesser extent. It used to always make me laugh when every building designed by the Richard Rogers Partnership was "designed by Richard Rogers", when in reality in some projects he had very little input in to a particular project, but never no input at all.

I found the following references in relation to Heal's:

historicengland.org.uk Heal and Son Limited Including Habitat - "Original central section of frontage five-window bays 1914-17 by Cecil C Brewer and A Dunbar Smith"

thomaskellner.com/ a German Fine Art Photographer "Arnold Dunbar Smith (1866-1933) - Important works - Heal's Furniture Store"

heals.com "Cecil Brewer Staircase - Designed by Ambrose Heal’s cousin, the architect Cecil Brewer". But surely this only relates to the Staircase?

heals.com "Cecil Brewer, Ambrose Heal’s cousin and best friend, was tasked with designing the new flagship. He also installed the iconic Cecil Brewer staircase..."

I would not add my own opinion (WP:NOR) to the article, but I think it was likely that Smith & Brewer only obtained the commission because of Brewer's relationship with Ambrose Heal, so Dunbar Smith was not mentioned. I am still happy using the historicengland.org.uk reference because this website is without editorial bias from a reliable source on the topic, where Heal's website is not. SethWhales ^talk 08:00, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I would not exactly take the official listing as gospel. Unfortunately there is no mention of Percy Delf Smith nor Joseph Armitage's involvement in the frontage design. Based upon RIBA Obituary which just says Brewer's work on Heal's (it does mention joint work on other projects) I would think it would be safer to change the wording to the article, maybe to "Later the partnership designed". Davidstewartharvey (talk) 08:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

@User:Davidstewartharvey. If you would like to edit the article with reliable (sources) references, then please go ahead, although I do consider the Historic England website to be a reliable source. SethWhales ^talk 11:02, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

@User:Davidstewartharvey. I've just found this link to the RIBA site regarding Heals and Smith & Brewer. It states at the bottom, NOTES: The store was dessigned in 1917 by Smith & Brewer. SethWhales ^talk 10:33, 14 June 2024 (UTC)