Talk:Arraba, Jenin

Hütteroth, and Abdulfattah: typo

On p. 128 in Hütteroth and Abdulfattah the grid for this place is given as 169/171. This is clearly a typo, on all the maps coming with the book, the village (identified as "m3") is shown in its correct position, more like (169/201). Huldra (talk) 22:01, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. 169/171 is actually the location of Jamma'in. Zero^talk 19:37, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Great work

Thanks Huldra for the major effort.

a)So far we have failed to have the article mention the village's history from 1947 to the present (the 1948 war, the Jordanian rule, the Israeli rule, the Palestinian Authority). You think you can help with that?

b)I am not sure in what language is ‘Arrabah supposed to mean 'a steppe' (surely not Arabic; that is unless Palmer has accepted the folk etymology of the word <modern local dialect ‘a rabyeh on a steppe).--What's_the_big_deal?! 09:59, 16 September 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arpose (talk • contribs)

Glad you liked it! As for

a): I am sorry; presently I have concentrated on finding old sources (pre-1948), also because many of these sources are now on the net (No copy-right issues anymore). There obviously should be a section on 1948, (and after), and also the 1967 and after. But I presently do not have the sources.

b) As for Palmer, what I know is in his preface vff. I speak (or read) no Arabic, unfortunately. If you want, we could change it to "According to Palmer, writing in 1881, the name meant.." etc., or something like that. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 19:23, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Finn, Stirring Times, Vol 2, has a few pages on what I guess is the fighting mentioned by Guerin. Also quite a lot in Rogers, Domestic Life in Palestine. Zero^talk 19:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok, fine, I´ll check them both up later. I read Finn some years back, (I have one of the books), and he wrote a lot about different villages, and their local policies. However, at that time most of the village -articles had not been made. I should really revisit him, and "walk" in his foot-steps, too... And Rogers, I recall, wrote a lot about the Abdul-Hadis (visited their palace in Nablus), Cheers, Huldra (talk) 19:54, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Check out this. Zero^talk 20:01, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Excellent. It also has a bit about other villages/towns. The whole thing is on the net: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6Huldra (talk) 20:58, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

le Strange

I wonder if this is the place mentioned in le Strange, p. 390, 395 called Arabah? Huldra (talk) 22:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, he doesn't go into enough detail when describing the place. It could be Arraba, Galilee. However, in medieval times the Galilee was part of Urdunn, not Filastin. This Arraba was a part of Filastin though. --Al Ameer son (talk) 23:11, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Right, but note two places called "Arabah/Arrabah" are both mentioned by the same author: Yaqut al-Hamawi, on p. 399 (from Yakut, iii 627) (which is clearly Arraba, Galilee), and then this one, on p. 395 (from Yakut, iii 633). Therefor it seems to me as to be two different places. And since there are only two places in this region with that name, this must be the "Arabah" on p. 395? (In addition to the fact, as you mentioned: this Arraba was in Filastin) Cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

You forgot about Arabah -- What's_the_big_deal?! 11:59, 28 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arpose (talk • contribs)

Yes, but "a place" normally does not apply to a wadi; look at the Arraba, Galilee, which he calls a place. If it is a mountain, valley, or the like, Yakut normally describes it as thus, (at least the little I have read of him). We really should get someone who reads Arabic to check the original, though. Huldra (talk) 18:45, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, didn't see that one. Ok then I'm pretty confident that he's talking about Arraba, Jenin. We should go ahead and add the info. --Al Ameer son (talk) 18:50, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Ok, will do. But it would still be good if some Arabic-speaker (with access to a good library) could check the original. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 18:59, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Here's what you find in the original: Yaqut speaks of a site of a 7th century battle in Palestine between Muslims and the Byzantines ("ar-Rum") that is called ʻArabah or ʻArbah. As far as I know classical authors use the word مَوْضِع (site) very generally as if to say "well it's a place and that's it!". (It isn't the word used by Yaqut to describe Arrabah, Galilee, by the way) -- What's_the_big_deal?! 21:50, 28 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arpose (talk • contribs)

Ah, thanks! Can you see if he use the same word ("site") for Wadis, too? I´m going to start expanding Arraba, Galilee. There might have been a mix-up in the "Arrabehs", too. Scholars have routinely mixed up places with similar names in Palestine! See Talk:Tayibe, Talk:Tira, Israel, and Talk:Al-Lubban ash-Sharqiya.

And someone with knowledge of the Muslim battles in 7th century could perhaps also be of help. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:20, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Here is a statement of a near-consensus, along with an interesting differing opinion, on the site of the battle (in the footnote commentary by Palmer and Brock to a near-contemporary Christian's chronicling of the early Islamic conquests). —What's_the_big_deal?! 14:02, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

I´m sorry: I cannot see that page. (What page google lets you see apparently partly depends on what country you are in). But let me guess: it points towards Arabah? Come to think about it: none of the larger battles in older times (that I know of) took place in villages, or towns. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 19:06, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

The battle of Arabah is a chase that is said to have followed the battle of Dathin. It has been accepted for a while that Arabah is the valley while Dathin is a place near Gaza. Some scholars find this to be a stretch though and suggest identifying Dathin with Dothan and Arabah with Arubboth. Try googling (dothan dathin), that's how I got the link. -- What's_the_big_deal?! 07:25, 2 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arpose (talk • contribs)

Ok, since this seems disputed, I´ll remove it for now, Cheers, Huldra (talk) 18:37, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Infobox image

So which Arraba is the new image from??—Arpose (talk) 13:20, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

The image is of the Arraba in the West Bank near Jenin i.e. the subject of this article. --Al Ameer (talk) 15:16, 1 November 2015 (UTC) Al Ameer (talk) 15:16, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

You sure about that? Then why is it in the article about the other Arraba? I'm tlking about that in the infobox.—Arpose (talk) 17:08, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

I see that now. The image from the Arraba in Israel (Arrabat Battuf) article was uploaded three years before the same image was uploaded to Palestine Remembered in 2008. It looks like someone uploaded the picture of Arrabet Battuf to PR's profile of Arrabet Jenin and then I carelessly re-uploaded it to Wikipedia not realizing the mistake. The image in this infobox should be removed and the picture I uploaded should be deleted as a duplicate. Thank you for noticing this. I should've paid more attention here. --Al Ameer (talk) 18:45, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

The re-uploaded image is more seemly to be honest. :) —Arpose (talk) 11:29, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

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small Zertal mistake

Zertal writes that they paid 29,275 akçe in 1596 taxes, that is a mistake, the correct number is 29,575 Huldra (talk) 22:57, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Can they claim a refund? Zero^talk 00:37, 7 November 2018 (UTC)