Talk:Arthur St. Clair

Casualties

General Arthur St. Clair sent to attack the Amer Indians, forcing them to a peace. George Washington told St. Clair to "Beware of Surprise". St. Clair attacked the villages of Miami, Shawnee and Delaware Indians near modern Fort Wayne Indiana. His troops consisted of 2 regiments of regular army troops and militia from Kentucky and some of the original 13 states. Arthur St. Clair was governor of the Ohio territory. Much of the militia deserted, the soldiers were sick, there were no pack horses and the tents leaked. By the 4th of November 1791, the army was down to 1400 men. They camped along the Wabash River. Before sunrise, "Little Turtle", the great Miami Indian war chief, led 1200 warriors into battle. They took St. Clair's army completely by surprise. Before noon, half of the army was dead on the field. The remainder ran for their lives, leaving the dead and the wounded and 8 cannons, 1200 muskets, horses and wagons. "Little Turtle" lost 21 braves. It was one of the greatest Indian victories. President George Washington heard what had happened and purportedly shouted to his secretary "St Clair suffered that army to be cut to pieces, butchered, tomahawked by surprise. How can he answer to his country. The curse of widows and children is upon him."

As a reference Tribal Document Collection Consolidated Dockets no: 15-H 29F 3-17 Doctors Ermine Wheeler-Doeglin, Emily J Blasingham and Dorothy R Libby. 1997 Glenblack laboratory Indianapolis. InternetHero 15:51, 15 April - 2007 (UTC)

President of the United States in Congress Assembled

It is specious to label Arthur St. Clair as a President of the Continental Congress. Although you have changed my edits of Arthur St. Clair back to a Continental Congress President, perhaps you can leave this post on the talk page to help your readers discern which listing - President of the Continental Congress or President of the United States in Congress Assembled is correct. A brief case that the Continental Congress expired with the ratification of the Articles of Confederation and the offices had significant differences is as follows:

Although the Articles of Confederation was passed by the U.S. Continental Congress on November 15th, 1777, this Constitution of 1777 required the unanimous ratification by all the 13 states. Maryland was the last state to adopt the Articles of Confederation, completing its ratification on February 2, 1781. On February 22, 1781, it was unanimously resolved by Congress that:

The delegates of Maryland having taken their seats in Congress with powers to sign the Articles of Confederation: "Ordered, That Thursday next [March 1, 1781] be assigned for compleating the Confederation; and that a committee of three be appointed, to consider and report a mode for announcing the same to the public: the members, [Mr. George] Walton, Mr. [James] Madison, Mr. [John] Mathews."

The March 1st, 1781, enacted Constitution of 1777 provided for a unicameral governing body called the United States in Congress Assembled (USCA) to govern the United States of America. The USCA was charged " .. to appoint one of their members to preside, provided that no person be allowed to serve in the office of president more than one year in any term of three years."

On March 2nd, 1781, the Delegates, who were duly elected after each State had ratified the Articles of Confederation, convened in Philadelphia as the United States in Congress Assembled with Samuel Huntington presiding as the first USCA President. Additionally, George Washington continued to serve as General and Commander-in-Chief of the United States Continental Army.

The Constitution of 1777 Presidency, although similar to its predecessor, was a different and weaker office then that of the U.S. Continental Congress Presidency.

For instance, the Continental Congress Presidents, who served from September 5, 1774 to February 28, 1781, presided over a government that could enact legislation binding all 13 States with only a seven state quorum as opposed to the nine state minimum required by the Constitution of 1777. Additionally, Continental Congress Presidents, who decided what legislation came before Congress, often found themselves as the sole vote for their state, giving them a 1/7th to 1/13th vote over crucial legislation, appointments, judicial decisions, and even military orders enacted during the Revolutionary War. After March 1, 1781, the Constitution of 1777 mandated that two or more delegates must be present from each state for that delegation to be marked present and be eligible to vote in the new USCA government. Therefore, on March 2nd, 1781, the first act of the USCA was to disqualify both New Hampshire and Rhode Island from voting in the new assembly because they each had only one delegate present.

On May 4, 1781, to further weaken presidential powers, Congress passed the "Rules for conducting business in the United States in Congress assembled." that stripped the President of his power to control the congressional agenda which, was a tactic that the presiding officers (especially Henry Laurens) had expertly wielded as Continental Congress Presidents. These new USCA rules even went so far as to eliminate the President's prerogative to continue the debate, before a second to the motion was brought to the floor.

"Rule 10. When a motion is made and seconded it shall be repeated by the President or If he or any other member desire being in writing it shall be delivered to the President in writing and read aloud at the table before it, shall be debated."

There are numerous other examples on the differences between the two offices that range from the USCA's Committee of the States experiment to govern the USA by a "Board of Directors" without the USCA President at its head to John Hanson's success in championing the congressional resolution that moved the bulk of his presidential correspondence duties to USCA Secretary Charles Thomson. Moreover, USCA Foreign Secretaries Robert R. Livingston and John Jay took over most of the U.S. Presidential duties of entertaining foreign diplomats and dignitaries under the Articles of Confederation government.

Arthur St. Clair served as the President of the United States in Congress Assembled and not as President of the Continental Congress. To view the primary sources supporting this fact go to http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-c_Pu5PAiP_g/UOX0C4AiqhI/AAAAAAAADe0/tvVawnkqk5M/s1600/AA+AC.jpg and for documents signed by Arthur St. Clair as President of the United States in Congress Assembled please go here -- www.arthurstclair.com -- Stas.klos (talk) 14:53, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

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Parentage

This article states that Arthir St. Clair's parents were probably William Sinclair, a merchant in Thurso and Elizabeth Balfour. Most of the sources I have seen seem to support the theory that his father was indeed William Sinclair a merchant in Thurso, as per the matching parish baptism record, but not that his mother was Elizabeth Balfour. Drawing your attention to two pages of the book Caithness Family History (1884), page 335 ([1]), states that if this theory is correct then his father William the merchant was the son of a James Sinclair, but also grandson of James Sinclair, 2nd laird of Assery. Then, on page 33 ([2]) it says that it was the elder James Sinclair whose wife was Elizabeth Balfour. So it would appear that this article is incorrect by saying that Elizabeth Balfour was Arthur's mother and she was in fact his great-grandmother. Unless anyone can find any reliable sources to the contrary.QuintusPetillius (talk) 17:10, 17 May 2019 (UTC)