Talk:Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli

February 2005 rewrite

Am I to understand that this article was marked from a small stub article to copyvio more than 6 months ago with no reference URL and no discussion? If no one objects I will remove this and rewrite the stub. --Ian —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ianml (talk • contribs) 05:00, 6 February 2005 (UTC)

His surname

Although he's often referred to as "Michelangeli" and he's usually listed under M rather than B in encyclopedias, I've always believed that his surname was actually "Benedetti Michelangeli". This is because "Benedetti" is not an Italian given name, but in the form of a surname. The corresponding given name would be "Benedetto". Is my assumption correct, and do we need to say anything about this? -- JackofOz (talk) 09:29, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Jack, I think you are right. Benedetti and Michelangeli are surnames, possibly one coming from his mother and the other from his father, or even both from his dad, as commonly happens in Latin countries. Saying something about this in the article certainly isn't pivotal, but wouldn't hurt it either. Regards, MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 12:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, MUSIKVEREIN. I had a later thought. Benedetti may be his middle name, but one that was given in honour of one of his relatives with that surname - perhaps his mother's maiden name, for example, as you say. That is, it'd be in the same class of names as William Pember Reeves, John Wilkes Booth, Mary Tyler Moore, and thousands of others I can't bring to mind right now. That still makes it a middle name, albeit one that he preferred to use rather than just being known as "Arturo Michelangeli". If this is the case, referring to him as "Michelangeli" would be correct. But before we rush to judgment, best to find out the facts first. I'll do some more research. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

This says his father’s name was Giuseppe Benedetti Michelangeli. That doesn’t necessarily prove the surname was “Benedetti Michelangeli”, because “Benedetti” may have been a traditional middle name given to various members of the Michelangeli family. It also says “Of his father he said he had Austrian aristocratic origins, a Benedikter indeed ..." which might relate to “Benedetti”. I have no idea what a Benedikter is. It may refer to the surname Benedikter, and genealogical sites tell us that people named Benedikter are indeed related to people named Benedetti.

This Russian-language forum discusses the issue, with various points of view expressed, but without coming to any definite conclusion. It tells us his brother was Umberto Benedetti Michelangeli. But that still doesn’t prove his surname one way or another, because the same tradition could have applied to his brother and his father as applied to Arturo. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

The Russian-language version of the article has a box headed "Бенедетти Микеланджели, Артуро" - "Benedetti Michelangeli, Arturo". -- JackofOz (talk) 02:56, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Jack, congratulations on a quick-but-thorough research. Maybe we'll never know for sure, but my guess is Benedetti Michelangeli is the father's family surname and both Arturo and his brother Umberto were registered with only that surname, dropping their mother's. This isn't unusual in countries of Latin origin (generally Spanish, Italian and Portuguese-speaking nations). MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 12:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I know about the mother's surname forming part of the child's name in Spanish-speaking countries, but I wasn't aware this was a tradition in Italy. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Tempo di borea (talk) 14:45, 4 April 2010 (UTC):Benedetti Michelangeli is his actual surname. His father had the same surname (Benedetti Michelangeli), while her mother's surname was Paparoni. You should also be aware of the fact that in Italy aristocratic families bear normally two surnames. In fact, the Benedetti Michelangeli family has noble origin (a palace in the city of Foligno - Umbria is named after Benedetti Michelangeli family). The "two surnames" issue is, as a consequence, closed. This is not connected with the Spanish habit of getting the father's and mother's surnames. Please refer to P. Rattalino, ABM, L'asceta.

Neutral Point of View

I question whether recent edits have followed WP:NPOV. Claims to "prestige" and "greatness", even when quoted and well sourced, are higly un-encyclopedic. I have removed a sentence stating that ABM is considered one of the greatest talian pianists. Thanks. --Karljoos (talk) 18:41, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree, and to illustrate this point, at the moment the introduction reads ".. was a virtuoso Italian classical pianist and along with Josef Hofmann, one of the most perfect pianists in history. He is considered by many to be among the greatest pianists of the 20th century." Who picks the "most perfect pianist in history" and who considers him "to be among the greatest pianists of the 20th century"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.162.84 (talk) 05:04, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Agree with both above, and now looking at it, it's still a advertisment, not an encyclopedia entry. And especially an important artist like ABM would need a correctly written entry here. I'm not the biographer, but I'd really like to see some change. Anapazapa (talk) 14:36, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Anapazapa's comment, but also the other 2, have a noteworthy psychologic interest.

The statement "He is widely considered one of the greatest pianists of the twentieth century" appears in the introduction to all the greatest 20th pianists that were on the same level with Michelangeli, from Richter to Rubinstein, Kempff to Arrau, Schnabel to Pollini, Horowitz to Backhaus. And in nearly all cases, the "source" is the New York Times or the inclusion in the "Great Pianists of the 20th Century" CD collection published by Philips. Both of those distinctive conditions apply to Michelangeli, there's nothing to discuss about this; (and it should be noted that they have given him 2 ALBUMS in the Great Pianists CD collection, putting him not only in the great, but in the greatest ones)

But then, the mystery remains about Anapazapa and the other 2 commenters above. None of them in fact has posted such comments in the pages of the above said pianists: why only here? Why do these people call non-encyclopedic and "advertisement-like" something that is uniformly as it is here in all other like pages?

The article, as it is, is biased AGAINST Michelangeli, because it shows 1 favourable critic and 2 unfavourable ones (one of which regards the very young Michelangeli), in front of an extensive laudatory array of critics that were addressed to him in reality.

Moreover, the page does not explain that criticism to him was motivated on his rejection of the dominating fashion of his time.. meaning his originality (which has been stated by Piero Rattalino, considered a reliable source by WikiPedia and quoted here and there extensively Autumn gloaming (talk) 15:02, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

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wasn't he notorious for cancelling appearances?

I believe Gould filled in for him on one such occasion for a television appearance.104.169.21.247 (talk) 07:24, 19 October 2020 (UTC)