Talk:Arvīds Brēdermanis

Article request discussion from WP Latvia, to show how we got here

Request a missing article

• Arvīds Bredermanis, who established the first Scout troop in Latvia on April 17, 1917 under tsarist Russia

(possibly http://www.mfa.gov.lv/lv/Ministrija/vesture/4439/4446/ ?)

Maybe; see: http://www.lv.lv/index.php?menu_body=DOC&id=32701&menu_left=LAIDIENS&PHPSESSID=7d82f444214d94ced3226de5f31e3c — Zalktis 10:30, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! The link comes up broken for me, perhaps you could grab the text? Thanks, Chris 07:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

There is a slight problem - the first link dosen't mention scouts, the one Zalktis provaided doesn't mention his name. Here's what it says about scouts: In 1918 outside of Latvia, in Vitebsk, colors of Latvian flag are found in flag of local boyscout troop "Imanta". This troop was established in 1917 by A.Arends on his initiative Fr. Kalniņš made the scout flag which had image St. George on blue field on one side and Latvian flag with full name of the troop on other side. Similary in mid 1918 in Samāra A.Bredermanis established Latvian scout troop, members of this troop wore oval ensign with colors of Latvian flag on left hand sleeve of uniform
In first link it says that in 1919 he joined troop Imanta, but it doesn't say that this troop was a sscout troop and he was born in 1900 (I somehow am under impression that scout troops are established by a bit older people and meant for a bit younger people). I don't think there is place called Samāra in Latvia, I think it's rather Samara, Russia (if so perhaps it's more accurate to say that he established Latvian not in Latvia) ---- Xil/talk 23:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

You are right on both points, Xil: 1) Imantas pulks was a military formation during the Russian Civil War, not a scout troop. 2) The Latvian scout troop founded by Bredermanis in Samara, Russia (among Latvian refugees from the German occupation of the Baltics during WWI), as mentioned in the article I cited, was not the first ever Latvian scout troop. I'm also not sure that the Bredermanis who worked for the Foreign Ministry was the same one who helped found the Latvian Boy Scouts. A relative perhaps? Can someone check Konversācijas vārdnīca on Bredermanis and scouting? — Zalktis 06:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, then I definitely want to make the article factual and correct, even if I have to rewrite that section. The info in the article was on the Internet, and I had done a paper on Latvian Scouting in college 15 years ago, which likely has totally different info, but I can't find it, and if I could, how do I post it, as original research? It does have footnotes and all, but... Also, if anyone is in the NYC area, their public library has a 1920s Latvian Scout Handbook, that may have some info there, but they will not Interlibrary Loan it, I don't blame them. Chris 21:24, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Having consulted Latviešu skautisma četrdesmit gadi (1960), I am now sure that the scouting pioneer actually was the same person as the later Foreign Ministry official. — Zalktis 16:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

And he established his troop in Riga, so it was the first troop founded in Latvia but was not the first troop with a majority of Latvian members. — Zalktis 16:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)