Talk:As'ad ibn Zurara

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He hated the Jews

Latest comment: 1 year ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Regarding this edit, I think it's clear that 'he hated the Jews' is an evaluative claim, and WP:SECONDARY says that articles may make an analytic, evaluative, interpretive, or synthetic claim only if it has been published by a reliable secondary source. The source used is not a secondary source.

I also believe it's only WP:DUE to mention in our article like this if secondary sources mention this is in a similarly casual way. Why is it relevant that he hated the Jews? If it is relevant, secondary sources will surely have commented on that with some more context and depth. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 16:45, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

The words of 'Abdullah ibn 'Ubayy are: "As'ad ibn Zurarah hated the Jews." Muhammad tacitly accepts this assessment, as if it were well known among As'ad's acquaintances that he had hated the Jews. I.e., while it may be an "evaluative claim", the evaluation is by 'Abdullah ibn 'Ubayy and Muhammad, not by a Wikipedia editor.

However, it might be more objective to express the matter as "As'ad had a reputation for hating the Jews."

As to relevance, an individual's attitude to the Jews is relevant to the entire narrative of Muhammad's decade in Medina. Muhammad claimed to be a prophet in the line of the Jews and he was engaged in military conflict against the Jews. As'ad was a monotheist like the Jews, yet he did not accept their form of monotheism, which says much about his state of mind when he first learned about Islam.Petra MacDonald (talk) 01:48, 14 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

We need the evaluation to be by a modern scholarly secondary source, not by medieval figures. If it is relevant from an historical/encyclopedic perspective, such scholarly sources should talk about it (the fact that they do talk about something is what makes it due for us to mention). Note that I do not claim that this is not present in scholarly sources, I do not know. But absent such a source it has no place in a Wikipedia article.

This is common Wikipedia practice and the regular interpretation of WP:SECONDARY. As I said in my edit summary, if you think an exception should be made in this case, it would be best to take it up at WP:NORN or similar. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 20:26, 14 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

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