Talk:As-Samu

Ambiguous

Where is es-Samu located specifically? Is it the town located south of Hebron, because if it is then the town still exists and the residents still live there.

Fatah militants or Jordanian forces?

This article comes across as confused. It says that Israel attacks the town because of Fatah militants but it says the fighting was between Israeli and Jordanian forces. Whatever happened needs to be better explained. --Abnn 23:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I've expanded this now with suitable references. --Ian Pitchford 06:48, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

This is not about Samu- it is about Operation SHredder, which has an article of its own. This article can have a short mention of the incident, with a refernce to the main article. Isarig 18:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Fascinating stuff. --Abnn 18:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I can imagine a Samu incident article existing at some point since the whole thing seems more involved that just an Israeli military operation. --Abnn 18:23, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Please seek consensus before making a major change like this Isarig. It's easy to make an argument either for a separate article or for leaving the content on this page, but I don't think there's a strong argument for including everything only under Operation Shredder. --Ian Pitchford 07:48, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Read WP:BOLD. 3 editors, including the one who brought this article to your attention to begin with have agreed to this. This article is about the village of Es Samu, not about the military operation. we can include a summary of this major operation here, with a pointer to the article discussing the military operation, but to have 95% of the content dedicated to the operation is ridiculous. Isarig 15:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I would prefer a clear debate here as I'm not aware of the discussion to which you refer. I really don't think it's appropriate to write Palestinian history in terms of Israeli military operations. Either a section here or a separate article would be more fitting. --Ian Pitchford 09:57, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

This is not an article about Palestinian history - it is an article about a town. The military operation in that town was significant enough to warrant a mention in the article - and we already have that - with said mention making up about 50% of the article already! The Hiroshima article is not about the Atom bomb dropped there - it mentions that significant bombing in a short paragraph and points the reader to an article about the bombing. Same for Dresden. Same for Appomattox, Virginia. There's no reason why this article should be any different. Isarig 15:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe I have already responded to this point. It's inappropriate to structure Palestinian history according to which Israeli military operation was taking place. The Incident is of course much larger than Operation Shredder. I doubt also whether many people have heard of this operation's code name whereas most relevant history books cover the Samu Incident. --Ian Pitchford 16:52, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Please look at the article's name: It is Es Samu - a town in the West Bank, It is not about the military operation there, just like Hiroshima is not about the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. Isarig

Indeed. That's why I moved the Samu incident material to an article of that name. I was just supplementing the new article with information on reactions from David Ben-Gurion, Moshe Dayan and the PLO when you deleted it. All interesting stuff. With all of these changes some of the information has been lost and the notes have been detached from the bibliography, which means that none of the articles are as useful as they were. --Ian Pitchford 17:32, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I did not delete it - I redirected it to Operation Shredder which already had thsi content. Feel free to re-add the missing bibliography notes, but there's no reason to create duplicate articles. Isarig 17:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Removal of sourced content

Can the removal of this sourced content be explained? Granted the youtube link isn't a reliable source, but the BBC link certainly is.Bless sins (talk) 19:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I certainly think an as-samu resident being attacked is pretty relevant to as-Samu....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

this is an article about as-samu, and no, not every event involving a Samu resident (even assuming the victim is one - the BBC article does not say that) is relevant to the article about the town. The city of Oakland, for example, averages about 100 murders per year - not a single one of them is mentioned in the article about Oakland, let alone having an entire section devoted to it Canadian Monkey (talk) 03:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that the settler violence is a subject important enough to include in wiki..The land theft in the West Bank is a rather important issue....after all what has "On 12 November, 1966 an Israeli border patrol hit a mine, killing three soldiers and injuring six others. The Israelis believed the mine had been planted by Fatah militants from as-Samu. In response," got to do with as-Samu?....Looks like you're being a bit POV CM....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:23, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh and since when did wiki start to run out of paper???.....Articles can be as long as is possible.....And crime in Oakland gets a mention....Looks like you're argument is disingenuous CM..Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

"The alleged assault happened in fields near the Palestinian village of al-Samoa." from the BBC....I think you're trying to push POV CM....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 10:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia, but that is not a license to add irrelevant content. If you think settler violence or land theft is a subject important enough to include in wiki, go and start an article on that topic, but don't insert information about it into articles where it does not belong. The as-Samu incident (Operation Shredder) is a notable event (notable enough for its own lengthy article, more that twice as long as this one!), possibly the most notable event the town is known for, so information about it is relevant to the town's article. An alleged beating of a man in fields near As-samu is not of similar notability. Canadian Monkey (talk) 14:32, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Oakland has Oakland crime, as_samu should have as-Samu crime??....the settler violence at as-Samu was notable enough for Israeli television...

The Israeli dead didn't occur in as-Samu..therefore it should be removed...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 15:37, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

If reliable sources have commented about the crime situation in as-Samu, in the manner that numerous reliable sources have commented about crime in Oakland, feel free to add this (properly sourced, of course) to the article. Canadian Monkey (talk) 20:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think this beating is "crime" in any regular sense. I'd call it an incremental pogrom in a campaign targetted on wholesale ethnic cleansing. PR^talk 18:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Thankfully, we're not writing this encyclopedia based on what you'd describe things. Canadian Monkey (talk) 22:14, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

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