Talk:Asante Empire

fun

do they have fun and if so what do they do for fun? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.158.75.196 8:09, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

dang...guess we did kinda miss out on that. i'll see what info i can dig up from my sources. holla.Scott Free 13:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

habibi alahu akbar (god is great) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.182.46.252 (talk) 05:44, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

The Mythic and Absurd origins of the Asante

The history and origins of the Asante presented in this article corresponds neither to current academic literature nor Asante (and Akan)oral and drum histories. The absurdity of foreign origins of the Asante and other Akan peoples as been refuted by credible archaeological and anthropological research. There is no evidence of the Akan coming from Ghana Empire in Mauretania. There is no evidence of any migration from the Niger Bend or from any of the empires located along it.

The Asante (Ashanti) are an extension of the Akan cultural group, which includes the Abora, Abron, Adanse, Agona, Ahafo, Ahanta, Akuapem, Akwamu, Akyem, Aowin, Assin, Baule, Denkyira, Fante, Gyaman, Kwahu, Nzema, Sefwi, Twifo, and Wassa. Located primarily in the former nexus of the Atlantic Slave Trade (the Republic of Ghana), the Akan cultural group belongs to the Tano language sub-group in the Niger-Congo language family. Population movement and political distinctions among the various Akan-speaking people have given rise to dialectical distinctions over the past few centuries. Linguistic comparisons between the non-Akan languages that share the Tano sub-group (Guan, Krobu, and Abure) reveal a linguistic affinity among these populations. The Akan, Guan, Krobu, and Abure languages derived from a single parent language.

The affinity of the Tano group and its geographic dispersion contradict theories of northern invasions and eastern migrations. Akan origins, as are the origins of many civilizations around the world, are obscure and a few outlandish theories have been proposed. One of the most farfetched is the claim that Libyan Berbers or Egyptian refugees traveled from a mysterious kingdom near Carthage and colonized the “Negro aboriginals” (Meyerowitz, 1958:17-21). The Akan, however, claim that they are autochthonous to the region where they are now found and that their ancestors ascended from caves or descended from the sky, which are, in my opinion, metaphors for commoner/ancient origins versus royal or sacred origins, respectively. No insertions or remnants of exogamous languages have so far been found that would point to Saharan invaders or Nilotic migrants or even Mande-speaking traders, who for non-Islamic West Africans have become the ‘new Hamites’ in current theories of cultural diffusion (Wilks, 1961, 1982). Most of the Akan are found in the southern half of the Republic of Ghana. A few, like the Baule and the Abron, are found in central and southeastern Cote d’Ivoire. Though the speakers of the Tano sub-family languages are widely dispersed, a linguistic map clearly shows how each branch in the Tano sub-family is adjacent to the branches to which it has its closest affinity. This creates a picture of population growth and language distinction within a single autochthonous civilization occurring over millennia. Aside from sharing a common language, the Akan-speakers, generally, share a basic indigenous religion, kinship structure, calendar, and political structure also.

Archaeological evidence from the ‘capital sites’ of Akan city-states is supportive of the oral histories of their political origins. The remains of permanent settlements and iron-smelting in the savanna/forest transition zone from the fourth century AD in an area called Abam near the site of one of the earliest known Akan states, Bono Manso, have been uncovered. As for the Asante region itself, the early, large settlement of the Asantemanso, the ancient capital of the city-state associated with Asante origins, has been partially excavated and shown to date back to the early 9th century (Vivian, 1990). This date is much earlier than any formerly proposed for the Asante or even for the Akan in the Asante region. Asantemanso has been continuously occupied for more a thousand years. Mysteriously, the 14th and 15th centuries are proposed as the start date for Akan state formation in the Bono region and the appearance of the Akan in the forest region of Ghana (Wilks, 1993). To date, very little archaeological work has been done on Akan ‘origin sites’, which are, presumably, older than their capital sites. The only exception being excavations carried out near the rock shelter site of Amuwi in the Bono region. This ‘origin site’ of the Bono revealed iron smelting dating from 105 AD. Further archaeological work throughout the Akan-speaking area will probably articulate the connection of the Akan sites to the ‘Kintampo Culture’ archaeological sites dating from about 2000 B.C., which have been found almost exclusively within the current Tano language group areas. This geographical dispersion within the Tano language zone, along with the continuity of the square courtyard-style houses of timber frames, clay, and plaster that the Akan continue to make, suggest that these sites of the earliest sedentary agricultural village life in West Africa do indeed represent the cultural antecedents of the Tano-speakers in general and the Akan in particular (Farrar, 1996: 1-3, 56).

From the beginning of the second century A.D. to the tenth century A.D., trends in the archaeological record show that in west central Ghana “…craft and technological specialization, proto-urbanism…” (Phillipson, 1995: 177; Andah and Anquandah, 1992: 243) were being developed and eventually led to the formation of numerous Akan city-states including Wenchi (D. Calvocoressi & Nicholas David, 1979: 16) and Adansemanso by the early 8th century, Asantemanso by the 9th (Vivian, 1990), Begho in the eleventh century (Anquandah, 1993: 645, 648, 649) and Bono Manso in the thirteenth (ibid, 645, 650, 651; Farrar, 1996: 44). Asantemanso’s florescence from 1200-1700 coincided with the shift of local, regional, and international trade networks to sources of gold that resulted in intense competition among the Akan over the gold-producing areas in Volta-Tano Watershed and access to traders in foreign goods from the Islamic, Indian, and European, and Atlantic worlds which gave rise to the larger states and eventually the ‘empires’ of Tekyiman, Denkyira, Aowin, Akwamu, Akyem, and Asante.

The archaeological record shows that “the complex organization of the Akan forest states [Adansemanso and Asantemanso] emerged concurrently with the forest fringe states” of Wenchi, Begho, and Bono Manso (Vivian, 1996: 39).

Although the 15th century date for Akan state formation is no longer supported by the archaeological record, it can not be disputed that dynamic changes were occurring in West Africa during the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, especially along the 'Gold Coast' and its hinterland. The Saharan gold trade, directed towards the Islamic and Mediterranean worlds, had long since connected the Akan in and along the forest belt of present-day Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire to what was at that time the most productive global trade network. Considering the 8th century date of the Akan capital site of Wenchi, far to the north of the forest belt and the 8th century date for Adansemanso south of its 9th century forest belt neighbor Asantemanso, it appears the Akan were already well-established both in the forest belt and the savannah to the north of it by the time of the Arab conquest of North Africa. They were not forced to flee from some other part of Africa, they did not migrate from ancient Ghana or any other empire. They are indigenous to the borders of the Republic of Ghana.

Works Cited -Andah, B.W. and J.R. Anquandah (1992) ‘The Guinean Belt: the peoples between Mount Cameroon and Cote d’Ivoire’, in Hrbek, I (ed.), General History of Africa vol. Three: Africa from the Seventh to the Eleventh Century, London: James Currey Ltd. -Arhin, Kwame (1967) 'the Structure of Greater Ashanti (1700-1824)', in The Journal of African history, 8, 1. -Anquandah, James (1993) ‘Urbanization and State Formation in Ghana during the Iron Age’, in Shaw, Thurston, Paul Sinclair, and Bassey Andah, Alex Okpoko (eds.), The Archaeology of Africa, London: Routledge. -Apter, David, E. (1968) Ghana in Transition, Princeton: Athenaeum. - D. Calvocoressi; Nicholas David, (1979) A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa, The Journal of African History, Vol. -Chazan, Naomi (1988) ‘The Early State in Africa: The Asante Case’, in Eisenstadt, S.N., Michel Abitbol, and Naomi Chazan (eds.), The African State in African Perspective, Leiden: E.J. Brill. -Daaku, K. Y. (1972) ‘Aspects of Precolonial Akan Economy’ The International Journal of African Historical Studies, Vol. 5, No. 2. pp. 235-247. -Farrar, Tarikhu (1996) Building Technology and Settlement Planning in a West African Civilization: Precolonial Akan Cities and Towns, Lewiston, New York: The Edwin Mellen Press. -Meyerowitz, Eva, L.R. (1958) The Akan of Ghana, London: Faber and Faber Limited. -Oliver, Roland, (1992) The African Experience, New York: Icon Editions. -Owusu, Maxwell (1987) “Kingship in Contemporary Asante Society’, in Schildkrout, Enid (ed.), The Golden Stool: Studies of the Asante Center and Periphery, New York: The Anthropological papers of the American Museum of National History (vol. 65, part 1). -Wilks, Ivor (1961) ‘The Northern Factor in Ashanti History: Begho and the Mande’ The Journal of African History, Vol. 2, No. 1, pp. 25-34. -(1962) ‘A Medieval Trade-Route from the Niger to the Gulf of Guinea’ The Journal of African History, Vol. 3, No. 2, Third Conference on African History and Archaeology: School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, 3-7 July 1961. pp. 337-341. - (1982) 'Wangara, Akan and Portuguese in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, I, The Matter of Bitu’, The Journal of African History, Vol. 23, No. 3, pp. 333-349. - (1982) 'Wangara, Akan and Portuguese in the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries, II, The Struggle for Trade', The Journal of African History, Vol. 23, No. 4, pp. 463-472. -(1989) Asante in the Nineteenth Century, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. -(1993) Forests of Gold: essays on the Akan and the Kingdom of Asante. Athens, Ohio: Ohio University Press. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kbempong (talk • contribs) 22:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Just to add to this idea, I'm confused about why there is no mention of Opoku Ware I, who is widely considered to be the founder of the Asante Empire. Moreover, there is no real description of the foundation itself, but only a general description of the centuries leading up to it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bdf2812 (talk • contribs) 21:10, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

corn/maize

The important role corn played in the empire's ability to expand out of its original environment is not mentioned at all. Kdammers (talk) 06:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Then add it :) Scott Free (talk) 00:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

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Ackees (talk) 15:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Ancestor Worship

I take issue with the use of the term "Ancestor Worship". A more historically accurate and culturally sensitive term would be "Ancestor Veneration". Wikipedia already acknowledges this, the page "Ancestor Worship" links to is called "Veneration of the Dead" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jewittm (talk • contribs) 22:33, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

False Satement: Asante Empire Did Not Extend All the way To the Republic of Benin Robert Baccah (talk) 22:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)Robert baccah

Asante Empire did not stretch all the way to Dahomey, which is present day Benin. Asante reach to the East ended in the what is present day mid Volta Region. It did not even advance past the Volta Region into present day Togo, which is a country lying between the Volta Region and Dahomey now known as the Republic of Benin. If Asante Empire did not extend into Togo how does it jump past Togo and form a boundary with the Republic of Benin which is further East? Please provide sources to support these wild claims that Asante Empire on the east stretched all the way to Dahomey aka the Republic of Benin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert Baccah (talk • contribs) 18:05, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

The Asante empire extended into modern day Togo, but not all of it. Around half of it was owned by us. However, we did get past the volta region Jfrimpong945 (talk) 23:52, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Jfrimpong945, I am not here to say you are wrong after all I agree with you however, it Would be wise to remain neutral at all times. Be disciplined and check the language and tone you communicate through. Remember, Wikipedia is not a blog, nor social media platform.((Kwesi Yema (talk) 07:10, 11 March 2022 (UTC))

Jesus, someone's desperate for respect. And clearly you haven't done much research. There were no states between the Asante and Dahomey, with the only ones being on the coast. They shared a border FOAM543678 (talk) 02:07, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

When I mean on the coast, I mean those on the far south border. The biggest one on that side being the Akwamu empire, whom were allied with the Asante to the point where they were considered one entity FOAM543678 (talk) 02:12, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

section on legal system

Starts in past tense and switches to presnet; can't really tell if this means this is true in the Ashanti autonomous region in present-day Ghana. That's a pretty fundamental thing to be unsure about, so I made no changes but could someone who knows please address this. Elinruby (talk) 04:20, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

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Redirected Ashantiland to point here

Per WP:BLAR, I've redirected that page to land here. Previously, it only discussed an area defined by the historical territorial extent of the Asante empire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Landscape repton (talk • contribs) 11:40, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

End of slavery?

When did slavery end? I assume the British made noises about it after 1895 but was this effective? If not then when did it finally end? Can we have this in the article under the Slavery section or under the British Relations section if it happened then? LastDodo (talk) 10:22, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

According to Britannica slave trade was forbidden by the British in 1807: '[in 1807] ...in the same year, Great Britain outlawed the slave trade. ...' --Yetanwiki (talk) 12:09, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

That was the Atlantic Slave Trade, not slavery on land. Britain outlawed slavery in its colonies in 1838 (1843 India) but the Ashanti Empire was not part of the British Empire until around 1900. But there is nothing in this article about whether this had any effect on slavery in Ashanti territory. LastDodo (talk) 13:03, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Kingdom or empire

I propose to rename Ashanti Empire to Ashanti Kingdom, and reverse the redirect if it's needed at all. An empire is a sovereign state made up of many countries or cultures that are ruled by a single individual, usually an emperor or empress. --Masssly (talk) 14:31, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

 Comment:, as of now I am neutral on a potential rename, simply put "An empire is a sovereign state made up of many countries or cultures that are ruled by a single individual, usually an emperor or empress." applies here as the Ashanti conquered numerous Akan tribes and States in their centuries of existence and they were an absolute monarchy until very recently. But that is not why I'm neutral, "WP:COMMONNAME" is, a simple Ecosia search produces that the Encyclopedia Britannica uses "Asante empire", Knowafricaofficial uses "The Great Ashanti Empire", and the Saylor Academy uses "Ashanti Empire". Meanwhile "Ashanti Kingdom" is used by a number of sources too, but "Ashanti Empire" seems to pop up there as well. --Donald Trung (talk) 15:26, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

 Disagree, Masssly, it was an empire. This is because it ruled several other kingdoms, states and ethnicities. Per Encyclopedia Britannica, the "Asante empire", extended from the Komoé River to the Togo Mountains in the East. Some of the kingdoms absorbed by the Ashanti were the Denkyira and Fanti. This is similar to other African Empires such as the Ethiopian and Oyo Empires. (Kwesi Yema (talk) 13:41, 23 May 2021 (UTC))

Hi Kwesi Yema. You said it ruled 'several kingdoms' but pointed only Denkyira and Fanti. Regardless, Denkyira and Fanti were once conquered by the Ashanti, however that doesn't equate to 'ruling; them. Do you have evidence that Denkyira and Fanti were actually ruled by the Ashanti? From when to when? --Masssly (talk) 18:58, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Masssly, Encyclopedia Britannica clearly states that the Ashanti expanded to the Komoe and Togo Mountains, of course absorbing all the kingdoms concentrated around those areas. However, if you want a detailed assessment, I'm going to share some books. Ivor Wilks in his book, Asante in the Nineteenth Century: The Structure and Evolution of a Political Order gives some insight from pages 18-20 and he even gives a map of the Ashanti expansion. From the pages, we learn of how the 19th century British Consul Joseph Dupuis remarked in 1820 how kingdoms had been absorbed into the Ashanti political system. From pages 23-25, Mr. Wilks details Ashanti expansion southwards with all the dates you need. In page 697, it states the Ashanti placed a caboceer or chief in every conquered town. On pages 129-130, he talks about how the Ashanti even made sure their conquered states were assimilated into the empire and answered only to the king. Page 127 states that complete hegemony and occupation of the Fante states occured in 1807. Robert B. Edgerton in The Fall of the Asante Empire: The Hundred-Year War For Africa'S Gold Coast on page 13 talks about how the Ashanti had brought 40 neighboring kingdoms under their rule and made them tributes. In pages 45-46 , he even mentions Assin as one of the conquered tributary states of Ashanti which took place before 1806. He also discusses the relations between Ashanti and her tributes states. On page 6, Mr. Robert adds that the Ashanti did not have a full standing army garrisoned in their conquered states. He also mentions on pages 37-38 that 6 main districts formed Metropolitan Ashanti whiles the rest of the districts were conquered states. They even built roads to connect the Ashanti with their tribute provinces. You also asked that why did the Ashanti not call their king emperor. However, the Asantehene was the title for king of all Ashanti states including its provinces. If we change the Ashanti from empire, then I believe the same should be done for the Oyo and Ethiopian empires which would be wrong. Just because African empires did not call their rulers "emperor" does not mean they were not centralized nor empires either because they very much fit what an empire is supposed to be.Kwesi Yema (talk) 00:02, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Mumbo Jumbo not LEDE Material.

Due to the empire's military prowess, wealth, architecture, sophisticated hierarchy and culture, the Ashanti Empire has been extensively studied and has more books written by European, primarily British authors than any other indigenous culture of Sub-Saharan Africa. Compared to other wiki entries the tone of this adds nothing to the article. A. it is an opinion from the colonizer b. why is it in the lead, it is not even true. Almost sounds like something a fan would write. --169.0.249.34 (talk) 15:31, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

No mention of slavery in economy section?

I popped over here while reading How Nations Fail wherein Acemoglu and Robinson describe the transition of the Ashanti empire from selling Europeans traders the slave captured in its wars to putting them on plantations. My impression I got from the book is that the Ashanti empire was a major slaving nation and slavery was core both to its economy and its political system. Yet I only found brief mention in the "culture" section that slaves had rules on what they wore. 148.74.203.178 (talk) 15:21, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Name

Can someone please change the name from 'Ashanti' Empire to ASANTE Empire? This is the proper name with the Akan spelling for 'Ashanti', an anglicized word FOAM543678 (talk) 07:18, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

FOAM543678, Because of WP:Common Name. The English version of Wikipedia uses the anglicised term of "Ashanti" because that is the most common Name that several english sources use. Although "Asante" is the correct name, "Ashanti" is the most common term employed not just by the sources of the article, but in the English world as well. "Asante" would be suitable for the twi version of Wikipedia instead. However, I'm not against switching the name into "Asante". I'd rather prefer if experienced editors of the English Wikipedia version gave their consent as well.((Kwesi Yema (talk) 12:48, 3 July 2022 (UTC))

Ight, understandable. Have a nice day FOAM543678 (talk) 12:50, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 5 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 10:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

---

Ashanti Empire → Asante Empire – Ngrams shows Asante Empire is used more than Ashanti Empire ([1]) and it should be changed per WP:Common name. Asante is also the native name, but that is nothing to do with WP policy Kowal2701 (talk) 21:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 20:07, 12 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 05:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Ghana and WikiProject Former countries have been notified of this discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 20:08, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

• Weak support based on Ngrams per nom and Google Scholar 220 Ashanti vs 239 Asante since 2020 (Asante is also more used for all results), so Asante appears to be slightly more common when specifically tagging "Empire". The Ashanti Region officially and commonly uses "Ashanti" so not impacted by this RM. Although its existence and general other use made searching for general mentions of the empire harder (hence needed "Empire"), so more in-depth research preferred. DankJae 22:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Ngrams are generally meaningless as they do not address local bias rather than global usage. Still generally referred to as the Ashanti Empire. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

  Can you provide evidence of this? Kowal2701 (talk) 10:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

  Google finds far more instances of "Ashanti Empire" than "Asante Empire", a much greater difference than the one the other way on Ngrams. That suggests that the common name is still the former. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:01, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

  My google search found them to be about equal, and Asante still comes up often when you google Ashanti Empire. Can you clarify what you mean by Ngrams are generally meaningless as they do not address local bias rather than global usage? Ngrams measures commonality in English language books, unless you think Ghana pumps out enough books about this to skew the numbers? The Asante Empire has often captured European interest due to the five Anglo-Ashanti wars Kowal2701 (talk) 13:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

  Mine certainly did not. The use of ngrams to prove common name is extremely controversial at RMs, as any examination of RM discussions will see. They can be useful as a tool, but shouldn't be used to illustrate some sort of fait accompli. The Asante Empire has often captured European interest due to the five Anglo-Ashanti wars. Precisely! -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:56, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

  Here it’s completely fine though since it’s a historical name used in history books? I can’t see any reasons why we would dismiss ngrams. This isn’t a discussion to change the title of Anglo-Ashanti Wars, see also Asante people Kowal2701 (talk) 15:15, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

  Also see List of rulers of Asante Kowal2701 (talk) 15:16, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

  Those articles refer to ongoing situations. The Ashanti Empire does not. As you say, it's an historical name used in history books! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

  I appreciate that you might see a name used historically as more legitimate or correct, but evidence does suggest Asante Empire is now more common Kowal2701 (talk) 16:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

  N-grams are perfectly fine and well-accepted as RM evidence, provided they are done correctly. They are "controversial" when not done correctly (most often in capitalization disputes when someone tries to "prove" a capitalized use is more common, but fails to take any steps to exclude most of the matches in title-case headings that have nothing to do with running-text usage; that can generally be done be appending or prepending a lower-case word that would be common in the context but capitalized in a title-case heading, and doing several such searches to gather statistically significant results). For material like this Asante/Ashanti question, where capitalization isn't at issue, an n-gram is quite sensible. And all things being otherwise equal (and they seem really close to equal here), WP actually does lean toward deferring to the native name, if the modern English-language sources do not overwhelmingly prefer a traditional angliciation (as they do for, say, "Munich" over "München", but have stopped doing for "Peking" over "Beijing" and "Bombay" over "Mumbai").  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:38, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relist, to allow additional discussion and the presentation of evidence against the move - at the moment, while editors have objected to certain evidence provided, they've failed to provide better evidence BilledMammal (talk) 05:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support, not only per OP's n-gram, which is reasonable evidence, but per much stronger evidence from journal search results constrained to 2020s publications, in which "Asante" overwhelmingly dominates (at more than a 20:1 ratio): [2]. That certain uses of "Ashanti" may continue is irrelevant (cf. Beijing but Peking duck; Mumbai but Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Bombay).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:47, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.