Talk:Ashanti Protectorate

This article is wrong. There was never an Ashanti Protectorate. See: Ashanti (Crown Colony). Apologies I do not know how to move this article.

Ashanti (Crown Colony)

A Crown Colony was established over Ashanti. No Protectorate was ever established over Ashanti. This article requires deletion for that reason. The previous note at the top of the article called for improvements to the article. That is not what is required. What is required is its deletion. I contacted an experienced WP user about the topic. He referred to the procedures involved in causing an article to be deleted. They were too complicated for me to follow or would involve more time than I can dedicate to deleting a bogus, entirely unreferenced article that was likely created in 2 minutes. If there is a better caption for the wording in red that I added at the top of the article, I would welcome its addition. If anyone wishes to take issue with my amendment to the content of the article, please provide a source for a Protectorate having been established over Ashanti. If you cannot find one, I encourage you to help with this tidy up deletion, whic really should be much easier than it is. WP has grown far too complicated and the project suffers as a result. Frenchmalawi (talk) 03:38, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

@Frenchmalawi: It looks to me like you're probably correct that the event in 1902 was annexation as/into a crown colony rather than establishment of a protectorate. But I've found some references to a protectorate being established in 1896 or 1897 after the exile of Prempeh I, for example in Raugh, Harold E. (2004). The Victorians at War, 1815–1914: an Encyclopedia of British Military History. ABC-CLIO. p. 30. ISBN 9781576079256.. Anomie⚔ 17:28, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

⚔, I predict with a Wikipedia article about a jurisdiction that never existed, you will see more references to a so called ‘Ashanti Protectorate’ in the future too! Let’s not let the facts get in the way of anything!

That you’ve found it so erroneously described in works of such general nature establishes nothing. Do the sources you mention cite any law for there having been a ‘Protectorate’? Of course not.

To add to how ridiculous this bogus article is, I would note that it was created in 2007 with the following note “ 23:51, 22 April 2007‎ Tobias Conradi talk contribs‎ 279 bytes +279‎ ←Created page with 'Ashanti Protectorate was established 1902 from the Ashanti Confederacy. On March 6, 1957, the Ashanti Protectorate, Northern Territories, Gold Coast Crow...” The fine creator of this article (A) is citing 1902 as the year that the ‘Protectorate’ was established when we know very well from Ashanti (Crown Colony) that that’s the year the Crown Colony was established; (B) the user in question was subsequently banned from WP for breaking WP rules. Well Tobias Conradi, your fine contribution to WP lives on! Frenchmalawi (talk) 22:38, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

@Frenchmalawi: I'd like to know how you think a book published in 2004 was affected by a Wikipedia article that wasn't created until 2007. Anomie⚔ 11:41, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

⚔ what I said is set out above; and of course, I expressed no such view! Are you disagreeing with anything I’ve said though? Are you seriously suggesting there is a proper source for a Protectorate having been established? When was this Protectorate established? Under what law? The position as regards the Crown Colony is well set out on the Ashanti (Crown Colony) article. Frenchmalawi (talk) 03:29, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@Frenchmalawi: Are you seriously suggesting there is a proper source for a Protectorate having been established? Yes, I referred to one. When was this Protectorate established? After the Second Ashanti Expedition. That source puts it in 1897, while some others I saw have put it in August 1896. Under what law? Good question. I'm not much of a researcher and don't have access to a good library, unfortunately. Why don't you help? The position as regards the Crown Colony is well set out on the Ashanti (Crown Colony) article. Yes, that article specifies the Crown Colony was established in 1902, after the uprising in 1900. What was the status of the region between 1896 and 1902? Every source I've managed to find online seems to agree that the British were setting up some sort of government and planning to be there for the long term, although most stop short of specifying what "category" of conquered territory it was considered. Anomie⚔ 11:40, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

⚔ You haven’t referred to a proper source. A proper source would cite the instrument under which a Protectorate was established. There was none. That a work of a general nature, i.e. not a work on Ashanti or even Ghana, gets a description wrong hardly makes it a good source. Our chap who wrote this WP article we are discussing thought it was established in 1902. Which is plainly wrong. On me helping, I wrote the Ashanti (Crown Colony) article. I think that helps! It has good sources, both primary and secondary. Following the references, you can even click in and read the law that established the Crown Colony. Oddly enough, that law makes no mention of a Protectorate! Strange eh? Wonder why? You can hardly task me with disproving something? I like you. You are interested enough to look into this and to admit you’re not much of a researcher. Why not have a look at my edit history and you can judge if I’m better at that than you! I enjoy our interactions. But, at the same time, this is pretty silly. There was no Protectorate. There are none so blind.. I wonder if Tobias Conradi is laughing at us? Before 1902, Ashanti was not British territory. That’s what its status was. It was neither a British protectorate nor part of Her Majesty’s dominions. Frenchmalawi (talk) 05:45, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@Frenchmalawi: Since you claim to be such a good researcher, what exactly did the British consider the status to be while they were installing colonial governors and such in the period from 1896 to 1902? Anomie⚔ 11:46, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello I am having trouble finding the original british government instrument where the West African territories called Ashanti is mentioned in the London Gazette, as a Crown Colony. It also begs the question, that if Ashanti became a Crown Colony why was it not just annexed to the Gold Coast and appointed its own Governor. A Chief Commissioner is a lesser ranking colonial administrator. At the end of the War of the Golden Stool, the Northern Territories of today's Ghana was made a Protectorate, but Ashanti was stated as being a Colony in the 1901 Ashanti Council, it was rather annexed to HM dominions. WAR OF THE GOLDEN STOOL (talk) 19:42, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Territory outside Her Majesty’s dominions, and not forming part of a Protectorate either. As I’ve said already. Is the burden of establishing it was not a Protectorate on me? Surely, it should be the other way around here? One shouldn’t be put to having to prove a negative. Frenchmalawi (talk) 09:37, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

You're doing a good job of saying what you think it's not, without reference to any sources and ignoring that they seem to have considered it something or they wouldn't have been installing colonial governors. I'm not asking you to prove a negative, I'm asking you to find sources indicating what it was. Anomie⚔ 11:42, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

User talk:Anomie - “ You're doing a good job of saying what you think it's not” OK. Fine. Let’s take it that I have no idea what it was not. Point accepted. “without reference to any sources” Again. OK point accepted. I am not trying to write an article about what the territory was before it became a Crown Colony. “and ignoring that they seem to have considered it something or they wouldn't have been installing colonial governors.” OK you say that they were installing Colonial Governors no less. Just provide sources then that it was a Protectorate. That’s all you have to do. I am not making ANY claim except that it was not a Protectorate. The burden should not be on me to prove that it was. The burden rests, fairly, on those who say it was. If it was a Protectorate, there would be a legal instrument establishing a Protectorate. Just point it out to us!! Frenchmalawi (talk) 01:19, 1 April 2022 (UTC)