Talk:Association football in New Zealand

Name

Please see Talk:New Zealand#Football not Soccer for discussion of most common name for soccer/association football in New Zealand. Am moving page to reflect most common name in New Zealand English. - Shudde ^talk 01:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

That discussion is archived at Talk:New Zealand/Archive 6#Football not Soccer.-gadfium 19:21, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

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Page move March 2013

The page was just boldly moved to Association football...

I won't myself oppose this move, being less familiar with NZ specifically than the page mover, but my understanding has been that far from England, while there is competition between the words "soccer" and "football", in sources, in the media, on uniforms, in stone on buildings, the word "Association" is unseen. Whatever the history in England, it has never been known as "Association" anything. Either plain "football" or "soccer". --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:36, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

The use of plain old "football" in NZ is probably considered more ambiguous in NZ than it is in England because of the prominence of various forms of rugby. For that reason, I don't think "Football in New Zealand" is a viable option. My understanding from the previous controversy regarding this topic is that it has always been a debate between "Soccer in New Zealand" vs. "Association football in New Zealand". (Of course, soccer people will often simply use "football" as if they are the only game in town—not unlike the British Open in golf just calling itself "The Open" and Wimbledon in tennis calling itself "The Championship"—but I don't think we necessarily need to buy in to such pretensions of exclusivity.) Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:50, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

You're right. I think Association Football makes the most sense in this case. Soccer is still incredibly common in New Zealand — with players, media, spectators etc. Using the term football in the article is ok in this case, but if the article was about sport in New Zealand for example, it would be a bad idea due to the ambiguity of the term. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the New Zealand talk page. There is definitely no consensus to use the term football rather than soccer in NZ articles, but I think Association football is a good idea in the case of this article. I think the move was bold but I'm not opposed to it. - Shudde ^talk 00:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

A large discussion took place on this one before (and can probably be found in the archives of this talk page). IIRC comments were about even for "football" and "soccer" - "association football" was, for some reason, not really widely considered as an option. Football is the official name of the sport in New Zealand, but traditionally "football" still refers to Rugby Union for many people. I feel that "Association football" is a fair compromise position. It's worth noting that the reason for the move is that over 90% of the catalogue tree and articles on the sport in New Zealand use the term "Association football" - yet another reason why I support the move. Grutness...wha? 03:08, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree, although I don't think what the 'official' name is (which isn't really official, but instead the name used by the sport's governing body) holds nearly as much weight as common usage, and issues of readability and clarity. - Shudde ^talk 05:17, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

• Still seems to me that the vast majority of New Zealanders call the sport soccer, just like the biggest newspaper in the country. To me, this is a similar case to soccer in the United States and soccer in Australia. Jenks24 (talk) 07:15, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Actually, the country's biggest paper uses the two terms interchangeably [1] [2]. Meanwhile, the biggest news agencies in the country uses football exclusively[3] [4], as does the country's main sports broadcaster [5] and main terrestrial television network[6]. I'd say the majority of NZers use the term football, too. That's certainly how it appears from NZ, anyway (are you, perhaps, viewing the situation from overseas?) As such, I don't really see it as at all similar to either of those cases. Grutness...wha? 07:44, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Yes, I'm Australian and I don't feel particularly strongly about it, just happened to notice this while skimming CFDS. Most New Zealanders I know call the game soccer, but that's a pretty small sample size. The Herald does predominantly use soccer, I don't think you'd dispute that(?), but the other sources you've provided are convincing. Personally, I'd still prefer "soccer" because NZers are far more likely to know that term than "association football", but again, I don't feel too strongly, so I won't be taking it to RM myself. Jenks24 (talk) 08:39, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
      • Yes, the Herald does still use soccer as its primary name. It may well be a regional thing in New Zealand, and that Auckland is slower to adapting to the term football, I don't know. Certainly here in the southern South Island, the term football's widely used for the sport now. I think that given there will be redirects for articles from the alternative term it makes very little difference. As much as anything, this change is to try to tidy up the mismatch between the article name and category tree (the overwhelming majority of categories are at "Association football", but the remaining few were refused a speedy rename because of the article name). Grutness...wha? 22:24, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

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