Talk:Astral Weeks Live at the Hollywood Bowl

credits

credts are obviously incorrect if you watch the DVD. Clearly a viola played by Nancy Ellis and would not make musical sense in string section writing if she played a violin. There is obviously a percussionist in the background - Rick Schlosser. Someone obviously wrote the sleeve credits who has no idea. The sleeve credits are not a reliable source because they're wrong. I am proved correct by the DVD. Kitchen roll (talk) 20:43, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

also, Liam Bradley played percussion throughout the whole show, as expressed here: http://www.mikedolbear.com/story.asp?StoryID=1977 I have seen many pictures of Liam Bradley, and can vouch that it is indeed him in the DVD, on percussion the whole way through. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.109.152.51 (talk) 11:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Liam also expressed frustration at the credits on the release as being done by people who were not properly acquainted with the musicians —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.109.152.51 (talk) 10:50, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Wikipedia, of course, has to list the official credits on the CD - unless it can be shown by a reliable source that they are not correct (which I'm satisfied was furnished here). If we made changes based on what editors think they know (as above), we would be taking it upon ourselves to give credit wrongly, and that's not our job at all. Thanks for taking the time to get this correct - at least on Wikipedia. Agadant (talk) 13:06, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Great! Now we've got a link proving the credits are incorrect we can use this source to correct the rest: [1]; [2], which is the reliable source I would have used if you'd replied in the first place. Cheers  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 14:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

If that source is so reliable, why does it only list Liam Bradley on background vocals and misspell Shlosser's name? And I did reply to you by reverting your edit giving Rick Shlosser credit for percussionist. Agadant (talk) 14:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

None of the credits for Van Morrison albums have spelt Shlosser like that. Schlosser's a German name, so he's probably of German decent, so his name must have been changed at some point by him or someone in his family, getting rid of the c to make it more of an American spelling, meaning that this isn't a blatent error. Bradley sung backing vocals on the 2008 tour just before the recording; the person who wrote the credits must have assumed it would be the same case for this show. Seems preety straight forward. Thanks  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 14:44, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Don't change the credits for the VM articles based on what you think you know. This is not our job... The credits on the CDs and DVDs have to be used, unless they can be proven wrong as in this case the musician himself is on record. And I didn't change them only thanked the editor for his correcting edit and his reference. Agadant (talk) 15:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say you changed them? Bradley sang backing vocals two shows previous to the hollywood bowl concerts: [3] (they don't have the info for the Amsterdam show). Schlosser derives from the German for locksmith [4]. And many Americans get rid of the c from "sch" in their names: [5]. I change things because I know I know. Thanks  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 15:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Per your bragging: "I change things because I know I know": Hmm, I believe your first comment on this page proves otherwise. You changed the percussionist to Rick Shlosser and I reverted you. Proving for all purposes and to anyone with the slightest intelligence that you are 'sometimes' wrong. A good editor is interested in providing reliably sourced material for the article, not in self-promotion and in proving he knows more than anyone else. (IMO) Please don't reply here anymore. This is a talk page for this article and one in which I put in a lot of time and research, not YOU. Agadant (talk) 15:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Because I know I know through the sources I've seen such as the ones above. I seem to be talking about improving the article here. You seem to be wanting to have an argument. I'm only looking to get the musicians who were robbed credit for their work credited.  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 15:54, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

YOU WERE GIVING THE WRONG MUSICIAN CREDIT FOR PERCUSSIONIST!!!! Don't you understand that? BTW: I hate arguing with a teenager. They don't know when to admit they are wrong. Please stop now!!! Agadant (talk) 16:10, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi everyone...seems this has gotten silly. For the record, Liam Bradley is a family member of mine and I know him well in that capacity. As the interview linked states up top (mikedolbear.com) he does indeed play percussion on this CD, and it is wrongly credited on print. Further he is a regular Van Morrison band member since 1988. After watching the DVD of this show I can clearly see Liam behind Van on percussion to Van's right throughout the show. Wikipedia should rely on being accurate, not on re-printing inaccuracies just because they are printed somewhere else. I understand the problem here - and to be honest I don't feel strongly about it either way despite Liam Bradley being a family member - but I just thought it was proper to point out an accuracy issue - which is still outstanding as the article has been re-edited to remove his name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iro008 (talk • contribs) 20:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Just to clarify. Is this Liam playing drum kit in the pictures in this link - the one in glasses and the hat? [6] (Agadant: I'm not going to use this as a reference I just want some light shed on this). I know Bobby Ruggiero is the one on the far left on some of the pics on other percussion. Cheers.  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 21:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Btw Bradley's name's just been moved up next to the other percussionist on the list.  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 21:07, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Liam is not on any picture on that link, I looked through all of them. I have no idea who it is on percussion/drums there, sorry! (Liam does wear glasses though, but he has very short fair hair) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iro008 (talk • contribs) 21:34, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

How about this one. I know it's a little far away, but could Liam be the male figure next to the backing vocalists at the far right of the image.[7] Copy it onto a word document or something and enlarge it for better judgement. This is a great help thanks  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 21:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

on the far right.. it does look like liam - same profile, glasses and fair hair.. but its way too small (and blurred if enlarged) to be 100% sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iro008 (talk • contribs) 14:03, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Liam has been given credit for percussionist on both the CD and the DVD. Thanks for everyone's help. Agadant (talk) 14:41, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your help Iro008. This would imply that [8]; [9] is correct, apart from the "c" in Shlosser's name  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 14:59, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Not hardly as it only gives Liam credit for backing vocals on the recordings. Any more comments from you will be removed. This is not a forum for your self-promotion and to continue on and on about a solved issue. Please take it to your own pages.Agadant (talk) 15:49, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

On the contrary you've added Liam Bradley - backing vocals and Rick Shlosser - drums to the concert film, disproving what you said above. As I said, I'm improving the article, and any such move you make to revert my good faith constructive edits is clearly sensoring the truth. I am not going to be intimidated by the clearly untrue comment above, as I have discussed referencing issues and reliable sources in every single comment I've added to this talk page. Thankyou and good day  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 15:58, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

FYI, I looked at the credits at the end of the DVD film last night and added credits that were given there. The only change I made was Liam on backing vocals on "Gloria" which I could see with my own eyes and is give also in your link from ivan.vanomatic. The problem with changing the CD credits to reflect what the DVD has is that there were two nights of performances that the CD and DVD were compiled from. We can not and should not conclude anything from the DVD is the same as on the CD. Agadant (talk) 16:07, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

The song times aren't the same on both nights, so they can be compared and verified that they're the same or different performance of the songs on the DVD and CD. If the song times are proved to be the same for both the DVD and the CD then we can add the musicians. The CD release times are listed on vanomatic: [10]. However I don't own the DVD and they're not on vanomatic, so I cannot confirm the song times for the DVD, so I'll search for them on another site. Thanks  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 16:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Can I also make note that vanomatic.de has changed Rick Schlosser's name to "Rick Schlosser (Rick Shlosser)" probably due to activity on wikipedia.  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 16:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)