Talk:Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport
Latest comment: 2 years ago by Colonestarrice in topic Requested move 21 April 2022
 | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
| |||||||||||
 | On 19 April 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Asynchronous Connection-Less to Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Requested move 21 April 2022
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved to Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport. (non-admin closure) Colonestarrice (talk) 08:59, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
Asynchronous Connection-Less → Asynchronous Connection-oriented Logical transport – ACL is a formally defined Bluetooth concept defined in the Bluetooth core specification (see bluetooth.com). It has always stood for Asynchronous Connection-oriented Logical transport and the current page title is therefore incorrect. Bluetooth SIG mdw (talk) 13:45, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
- This is a contested technical request (permalink). DanCherek (talk) 13:15, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: The requestor is not autoconfirmed. Per their user page, I would also believe that them performing the page move may be considered a conflict of interest. Steel1943 (talk) 20:23, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Steel1943, there's no conflict of interest here. On the contrary, my organisation the Bluetooth SIG is the sole authority on the technicalities and terminology relating to Bluetooth technology and all manufacturers follow our specifications. We're simply trying to correct a page which is 100% incorrect in using the wrong meaning for the technical acronym ACL. This is easily verified by looking at the Bluetooth core specification, Table 3.4 on P238 where ACL is defined. The specification is available from https://www.bluetooth.com/specifications/specs/. FYI we're a not for profit standards organisation and our sole interest is in accuracy and ensuring manufacturers and developers follow the specifications correctly and produce interoperable, specification compliant devices. In short... I'm trying to make Wikipedia's coverage of Bluetooth better :-) Bluetooth SIG mdw (talk) 10:04, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: This seems to violate MOS:SIGCAPS, and this source refers to "Asynchronous Connection-Less (ACL) packets". — BarrelProof (talk) 06:02, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi BarrelProof. I don't understand the first of your points re: MOS:SIGCAPS. Could you clarify please? As for the second point and the page I am requesting is renamed, yes that page does use the term "Asynchronous Connection-Less (ACL)". It is however 100% incorrect which can be verified with respect to the Bluetooth core specification. This is the sole technical reference for Bluetooth technology and terminology. Bluetooth SIG mdw (talk) 10:06, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps MOS:EXPABBR, along with MOS:CAPSACRS, is a better reference than MOS:SIGCAPS. Capital letters should not be used on Wikipedia for the purpose of explaining an abbreviation. Considering that the Bluetooth Core Spec itself does not consistently capitalize this term like that, perhaps a more appropriate title would be "Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport" (with lowercase), per version 5.3 page 224 and the title and first sentence of section 3.5.4.1 on page 241. The hyphen in the current article title is also rather strange in English, and it would be nice to avoid that if it is unnecessary. That source I found on the NIST website is not the only one – another that is even more spot-on is here. Is this a concept only used in the Bluetooth context, or is it a concept also used elsewhere? Is it possible that there are two different subjects – one that is called connectionless and one that is called connection-oriented, that use the same abbreviation? Or has the terminology changed over time in a way that would explain different people using different spelled-out meanings? (I notice that page 189 of the Core spec says the ACL term is used "For historical reasons", which could explain a change of the spelled-out meaning of the term if the SIG thought an old terminology was misleading.) When I search the web for "Asynchronous Connection-Less", I do find some uses (also "Asynchronous Connectionless Link"). When I search for "Asynchronous Connection-oriented Logical transport", I seem to find less (even without "transport"). However, overall my current suggestion would be to move to Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport (with lowercase). — BarrelProof (talk) 19:18, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi BarrelProof and thanks for the thorough review. I had previously checked with the working group (team) responsible for the Bluetooth core specification and ACL has always stood for Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport. I assume the many pages on the internet using the strange "Connection-Less" variant do so because of the existence of the wikipedia page I wish to change (the power of wikipedia!). I don't believe there's a general ACL, only the Bluetooth related topic. I agree with your suggestion of renaming to "Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport" and had not capitalised for any particular reason other than my ignorance of the convention (wikipedia editing newbie!). Do I need to do anything to modify the request to use the revised title or will that now be picked up automatically? Bluetooth SIG mdw (talk) 06:47, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- After about a week, someone will read the comments and decide whether it looks like there is an agreement about what to do, and then "close" the discussion and reflect the decision about the name. Unless someone else has something new to say, I suspect that the person who closes the discussion will move it to Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport. Details about how discussions are closed are found at WP:RMCI. — BarrelProof (talk) 08:27, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi BarrelProof and thanks for the thorough review. I had previously checked with the working group (team) responsible for the Bluetooth core specification and ACL has always stood for Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport. I assume the many pages on the internet using the strange "Connection-Less" variant do so because of the existence of the wikipedia page I wish to change (the power of wikipedia!). I don't believe there's a general ACL, only the Bluetooth related topic. I agree with your suggestion of renaming to "Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport" and had not capitalised for any particular reason other than my ignorance of the convention (wikipedia editing newbie!). Do I need to do anything to modify the request to use the revised title or will that now be picked up automatically? Bluetooth SIG mdw (talk) 06:47, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps MOS:EXPABBR, along with MOS:CAPSACRS, is a better reference than MOS:SIGCAPS. Capital letters should not be used on Wikipedia for the purpose of explaining an abbreviation. Considering that the Bluetooth Core Spec itself does not consistently capitalize this term like that, perhaps a more appropriate title would be "Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport" (with lowercase), per version 5.3 page 224 and the title and first sentence of section 3.5.4.1 on page 241. The hyphen in the current article title is also rather strange in English, and it would be nice to avoid that if it is unnecessary. That source I found on the NIST website is not the only one – another that is even more spot-on is here. Is this a concept only used in the Bluetooth context, or is it a concept also used elsewhere? Is it possible that there are two different subjects – one that is called connectionless and one that is called connection-oriented, that use the same abbreviation? Or has the terminology changed over time in a way that would explain different people using different spelled-out meanings? (I notice that page 189 of the Core spec says the ACL term is used "For historical reasons", which could explain a change of the spelled-out meaning of the term if the SIG thought an old terminology was misleading.) When I search the web for "Asynchronous Connection-Less", I do find some uses (also "Asynchronous Connectionless Link"). When I search for "Asynchronous Connection-oriented Logical transport", I seem to find less (even without "transport"). However, overall my current suggestion would be to move to Asynchronous connection-oriented logical transport (with lowercase). — BarrelProof (talk) 19:18, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi BarrelProof. I don't understand the first of your points re: MOS:SIGCAPS. Could you clarify please? As for the second point and the page I am requesting is renamed, yes that page does use the term "Asynchronous Connection-Less (ACL)". It is however 100% incorrect which can be verified with respect to the Bluetooth core specification. This is the sole technical reference for Bluetooth technology and terminology. Bluetooth SIG mdw (talk) 10:06, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi, to note, sometimes Wikipedia articles use a WP:COMMONNAME for articles, even if it's not technically the correct name, if that's the name people are more likely to search for. I can't comment if that's the case here though. Regarding SIGCAPS, WP:NCCAPS is probably the more relavent guideline for article titles. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:42, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi, the name used currently is not a common name. It is simply incorrect. Worse, FYI there are two primary modes of wireless communication; connection-oriented and connectionless. ACL uses the connection-oriented mode but the incorrect text on the page I wish to change designates ACL as being related to connectionless communication. It's both wrong in terms of the words corresponding to A, C and L but also technically incorrect. Bluetooth SIG mdw (talk) 11:56, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.