Talk:Atonement in Christianity

not enough basic information in the lead

This lead jumps right into competing explanations of how atonement works but doesn't explain what it means in the first place. What are its roots in Judaism? Where does the doctrine of atonement come from? There's no mention of baptism, through which the believer participates in Jesus death and resurrection. Nothing about repentance, or what happens to you if you don't atone. And the lead is too long, I might jump in here and rework the lead. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 23:30, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Atonement in Christianity is NOT appropriate

173.206.70.185 (talk) 20:34, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, ‘atonement’ is a widely-accepted word. Set emotional attachment aside. NO ONE before 1500 used that word -- no OT or NT Scripture, no stone tablet, no papyrus, no prophet, no apostle, no disciple, no translator, no commentator, no preacher, no scholar.

FACT: The atonement-label for Old & New covenant, vicarious-substitution was invented around 1510 AD when “at-one-ment” was coined.

- Greek Septuagint (132 BC) = hemera exilasmou (Lev.23:27,28)

- Latin Vulgate (425 AD) = dies expiationum (Lev.23:27) / dies propitiationis (Lev.23:28)

- Some English translators wrongly superimpose “Day of Atonement” into these ancient texts.

- The Apostles’ Creed (120-250 AD) / Nicene Creed (325 & 381) / Chalcedonian Creed (451) / Athanasian Creed (500) could not & do not mention the word atonement.

- There are zero Greek words that = atonement / expiation / propitiation / satisfaction / reparation in the NT.

- The “Doctrine of Christ’s Atonement” label is NOT true-to-SCRIPTURE -- it's a modern man-made marquee.

Non-Trinitarian Views?

Why is there a special section on "Non-Trinitarian" views on atonement? None of the main doctrines of atonement rely explicitly on the doctrine of Trinity, yet the organization of the articles strongly suggests such. Each of the preceding doctrines of atonement has Trinitarian and Nontrinitarian proponents, and there are plenty of Nontrinitarian groups mentioned in the detailed articles for those views. The views in this Nontrinitarian section (as they pertain to atonement) are almost completely covered in the existing sub-articles.

If there are groups with distinct thoughts on atonement (Mormons?), at the very least, these views should be listed under "Other Christian Views." To create a completely separate category makes no sense and confuses the issue considerably.

Biased, unfair deletion by Editor2020

173.206.68.125 (talk) 03:39, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

My contributions are neutral, relevant, significant, verifiable, reader-empowering, perspective-balancing, intelligent-summary facts, & should be added to the article. This is vital-to-full-understanding info. It is extremely relevant to learn Atonement is not supported by original Scripture or the LXX or the Vulgate. I will take this further if we can't resolve things.

An encyclopedia ...is a type of reference work or compendium holding a comprehensive summary of information.... ~ My contributions fill a major fundamental-hole in this article. ~ My contributions are given in good faith & are cited (in sharp contrast to the article -- which contains a citation-lacking warning, since Dec 2009.)

Atonement / Expiation / Propitiation in original manuscripts[1] ~ No occurrences in original OT Hebrew Scriptures, or in original NT Greek Scriptures. ~ Also, the word "Atonement" was invented around 1510 AD,[2] so no occurrences in Greek Septuagint LXX Pentateuch (282 BC),[3] or in Jerome's Latin Vulgate (405 AD).[4]

Expiation in Latin Vulgate ~ Enter expiat* in VUL at https://www.blueletterbible.org/

36 OT occurrences ~ No NT occurrences

Propitiation in Latin Vulgate ~ Enter propit* in VUL at https://www.blueletterbible.org/

61 OT occurrences ~ 6 NT occurrences {Lk.18:13; Rom.3:25; Heb.8:12; 9:5; 1Jn.2:2; 4:10}.

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