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Untitled
edit"They were also more willing to see the French in Vietnam than the Chinese army" This is an inaccurate statement with no possible proof behind it. Unless somebody has a poll taken at the time, or a scholarly analysis, this statement cannot continue here. There is an overwhelming North American bias in all Vietnam related articles. I want to create a better sense of neutrality but i am afraid it will end up getting me blocked from Wikipedia. How do i go about fixing this one? Kobaincito 05/14/06
- "They" in this case is the Viet Minh leadership rather than the entire country. The statement is accurate. Rather than a North American bias, the page tries to bring up issues that neither side would like to see discussed. The old story that the entire Vietnamese nation "rose up" against the Japanese under the leadership of the Viet Minh and were "betrayed" by America who itself handed Vietnam to France was never supported by the historical record. If you want to make changes, you should suggest what those changes would be and what sources you would be using to justify those changes. Your not going to get blocked for suggesting changes. 168.127.0.51 15:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
- "I prefer to smell French shit for five years, rather than eat Chinese dung for the rest of my life" - Ho Chi Minh. The Viet Minh did indeed allied with America during WWII, Ho Chi Minh later sent numerous letter to Harry Truman to ask for his support for Vietnamese independence but he never replied. Later on, America funded 80% of the costs to continue the war for the French. I'd call it a betrayal.--82.23.1.34 14:36, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
- Ho Chi Minh wrote eight telegrams (letters) to Truman throughout the late 1940's and into the 50's asking for recognition of Vietnam's independence. Dean Acheson, Secretary of State, advised Truman to aid Ho Chi Minh. Truman considered doing so but had obligations to the French and so half-heartedly aided the French instead. Here's a verbatim transcript of a telegram sent by Ho to Truman dated February 28, 1946. "On behalf of Vietnam Government and people I beg to inform you that in course of conversations between Vietnam government and French representatives the latter require the secession of Cochinchina and the return of French troops in Hanoi Stop Meanwhile French population and troops are making active preparations for a coup de main in Hanoi and for military aggression Stop I therefore most earnestly appeal to you personally and to the American people to interfere urgently in support of our independence and help making the negotiations more in keeping with the principles of the Atlantic and San Francisco Charters Respectfully Hochiminh" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.121.224.243 (talk) 07:37, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
- I think something should be added about how Ho Chi Minh changed his name to further his cause of uniting the people starting the revolution. "The revolution in Vietnam was led by Ho Chi Minh (Ho Who Aspires to Enlightenment). Ho went by many names including Nguyen Tat Thanh (Nguyen Who Will Be Victorious), Nguyen O Phap (Nguyen Who Hates the French) and Nguyen Ai Quoc (Nguyen Who Loves His Country). Ho used these different aliases to further his cause."Cdbolton2016 (talk) 22:01, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
- Ho Chi Minh wrote eight telegrams (letters) to Truman throughout the late 1940's and into the 50's asking for recognition of Vietnam's independence. Dean Acheson, Secretary of State, advised Truman to aid Ho Chi Minh. Truman considered doing so but had obligations to the French and so half-heartedly aided the French instead. Here's a verbatim transcript of a telegram sent by Ho to Truman dated February 28, 1946. "On behalf of Vietnam Government and people I beg to inform you that in course of conversations between Vietnam government and French representatives the latter require the secession of Cochinchina and the return of French troops in Hanoi Stop Meanwhile French population and troops are making active preparations for a coup de main in Hanoi and for military aggression Stop I therefore most earnestly appeal to you personally and to the American people to interfere urgently in support of our independence and help making the negotiations more in keeping with the principles of the Atlantic and San Francisco Charters Respectfully Hochiminh" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.121.224.243 (talk) 07:37, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Details on what happened
editthe august revolution is the bit where people ransacked rice warehouses and refused to pay taxes, (that should be in this article) what else actually happened? This article has way more context then content. Ottawakismet (talk) 14:42, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
here comes the proof
editLe Président Hô Chi Minh a eu ce mot digne de Henri le Béarnais, Henri IV de France, rapporté par Paul Mus dans "Viêt-Nam. Sociologie d’une guerre", Seuil Paris, 1952, et souvent repris.
- […] Je tiens de bonne source un mot prêté au Président et qui, non sans verdeur, décrit bien et l’opération et l’esprit dans lequel, du côté de la République Démocratique du Viêt Nam, les adversaires les plus résolus de l'ancien système colonial ont pu s’y risquer : "Plutôt flairer un peu la crotte des Français que manger toute notre vie celle des Chinois" (Paul Mus, p. 85, 1952).
That's what I've written in fr: contentieux sino-vietnamien" Go to fr: Paul Mus
Just read the books of Bernard B. Fall. He had quoted this entence of "better sniff the ass of the French for a while than to eat the shit of the Chinese for lifelong".
OSS-VN Co-operation
editIt's been a long story.
http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/AdvisingTheVietMinh.html
More comprehensive french version
editGo to fr: Révolution d'août
External links modified
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Removal of half of the page
edit@Bumbubookworm:, while the added content appears to be a copy-paste, most of it is relevant to this article, only a number of paragraphs should probably be trimmed but the August Revolution was a specific response to the Japanese surrender and the Japanese were still present in French Indo-China at the time. In fact the August Revolution only happened because of Japanese war crimes and Japanese influence. Specific parts of the additions could be cut, not all. --Donald Trung (talk) 22:32, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
Infobox
edit| August Revolution | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Part of the Decolonization of Asia, aftermath of World War II, and Vietnamese civil conflicts of 1945–1949 | ||||||||
 Occupation of the Tonkin Palace, Hanoi on August 19, 1945 | ||||||||
| ||||||||
| Belligerents | ||||||||
|
 Indochinese Communist Party |
 Trotskyists
 Empire of Japan |
 Chinese National Army | ||||||
User "Greenknight dv" added this infobox to the article, but it was later removed. From the sources I could find this actually was true as multiple Vietnamese nationalist forces were fighting each other during the early stages of this conflict, after writing about these conflicts I am planning on re-adding the above infobox back into the article, though I do understand that without sources it was removed I think that the current infobox is kind of misleading in that it showcases too little information that might give the readers the wrong impression. Though the current version of the article also overrepresents the role of the United States of America by not mentioning the activities of the Indochinese Communist Party (ICP) enough, something which I seek to address later. --Donald Trung (talk) 17:13, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- I do not know what you mean by "this conflict" (i.e. you mean the August Revolution or the events surrounding it?), but the fighting between multiple nationalist groups before and after the August Revolution is well-documented in the article War in Vietnam (1945–1946). To my understanding, the "August Revolution" specifically refers to the overthrowing of the Vietnamese monarchy and not all the surrounding events which preceded and followed, including the infighting and resistance against the Việt Minh in the south.
- The previous infobox was also misleading and missing context in the article body. Who were the Vanguard Youth, Đại Việt, and Vietnam Revolutionary League? Why are the VNQDD and Chinese nationalists included in the infobox if they were not involved in the August Revolution but the aftermath of it? Why are the Trotskyists listed between Japan and its puppet state, when the only description of them in the article is that they were purged by the Việt Minh after the August Revolution? Yue🌙 23:18, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- Because this article misses a lot of context. The Trotskyists were a major faction of the Pro-Nguyễn Dynasty / Anti-Việt Minh Mặt trận Quốc gia Thống nhất, user "Greenknight dv" probably didn't know that this had an article at the English-language Wikipedia. In general there seems to be a lot written about the "Vietnam War" (referred to as the "Local War in South Vietnam" by the current Vietnamese government) and it treats all the pre-American involvement articles as "its prelude" explaining mostly the context of what happened before the Americans became involved, this is simply an aftereffect of the fact that most English-language literature on Vietnam focus extensively on the Vietnam War and American involvement but not much else. Usually the Empire of Vietnam gets exclusively painted as a Japanese puppet state (which it largely was) but misses the more intricate factionalism that occurred during 1945. I am planning on expanding this article in the future when I'll actually tackle the year 1945 in Vietnam, but the August Revolution wasn't passively received by other anti-French factions and organisations in Vietnam and the Việt Minh often clashed with these other factions. Unfortunately, these events aren't well documented in English language sources so I will have to consult more Vietnamese-language sources but I'm sure that user "@Greenknight dv:" can also provide these. This is also why I've left the infobox unchanged for now as I haven't been able to document these factional struggles yet.
- Also, it might also be wise to create a separate "Vietnamese Civil War (1945-1949)" article, something which I think user "Greenknight dv" might have been planning to make but simply didn't take the time to yet. --Donald Trung (talk) 09:16, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
- Looking at that version of the Infobox again I can see that it can use some tweaks, the Mặt trận Quốc gia Thống nhất had multiple factions in it and the Việt Minh itself was also a faction made up of multiple political groups. Though I'll do that a more distant future when I'll also add more content. --Donald Trung (talk) 09:32, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
- Honestly, as long as you fulfill MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, I won't object to any future changes you make to the infobox. Thanks for all your help. Cheers, Yue🌙 20:15, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
- Looking at that version of the Infobox again I can see that it can use some tweaks, the Mặt trận Quốc gia Thống nhất had multiple factions in it and the Việt Minh itself was also a faction made up of multiple political groups. Though I'll do that a more distant future when I'll also add more content. --Donald Trung (talk) 09:32, 10 September 2022 (UTC)