Talk:Austin 16 hp

This is a continuation of a prewar car

Don't believe me then check this and here (and elsewhere) Eddaido (talk) 11:46, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Early production may have been exported so the announcement might be the same day around the world. An Australian example and a New Zealand example which has grown portholes in transit and given time might turn into a Buick Eight. Eddaido (talk) 02:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I remain unconvinced that there were any pre war 16s. Georgano's Beaulieu encylopedia, Sedgwick A_Z of Cars 1945-70 and Robson A-Z British Cars 1945-70 all say it was a post war introduction. Robson says that the near identical (apart from engine) 12hp did start production on 1 Sept 1939. Malcolma (talk) 08:42, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm, well, I've spent the morning at it. First the Flickr photo of the NZ car. I have checked by phone with our central licensing agency and their records show it as an Austin Sixteen and it was first registered in 1939 (I'm not sure I'm really allowed to have that info but there it is. I think I can find an Austin fancier who might trace me the owner if you wish). Second I can easily enough try the same phone ploy with the equivalent agency in Adelaide. Given that you suggest 12 and 16 were really the same vehicle with alternative engines it might have been simple to interpolate an occasional 16 in the 12's production line while building up pre-announcement stock to send them away for export customer showrooms.

Anyway following the rules I've been unable to find in The Times any pre-war *or postwar * publicity. What I have found is plenty of implications that it was much more than just on the stocks by the start of September 1939. Home Market rules? So, so far as Wikipedia is concerned, it remains a postwar vehicle but I plan to insist on being allowed to state that prewar examples were indeed made and are in existence today. What do you think about that? Cheeky of me I suppose but best to get it clear. Best regards, Eddaido (talk) 00:53, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

"the Austin Company announce a new Twelve which . . . "
New Austin Twelve. FROM OUR MOTORING CORRESPONDENT. The Times (London, England), Tuesday, Aug 29, 1939; pg. 8; Issue 48396

Display advertisements (quarter page):

"Here comes the New Austin 8". Austin '8'.The Times (London, England), Friday, Feb 24, 1939; pg. 9; Issue 48238.

"After the sensational 8 comes the still more sensational 10" Austin. The Times (London, England), Friday, May 19, 1939; pg. 9; Issue 48309

"Yes, its new, Yes its big-scale New Austin 12" Austin '12'. The Times (London, England), Tuesday, Aug 29, 1939; pg. 15; Issue 48396.

NEWS ITEM
New Austin Cars
Improved Engines and Appointments
Birmingham Jan 30 (1945)

Austin cars which will go into production as soon as conditions permit were on view to-day at the works at Birmingham, when some of the company's leading distributors and dealers were entertained at luncheon. The range comprised 8, 10, 12, and 16 h.p. four-door, sliding head saloons, each in a choice of three colours.

The numbers to be made, and when they are going to be made are dependent on factors such as the disappearance of controls, availability of materials, and the date of the end of the war. It was stated however that given two or three weeks notice the company could produce 10,000 vehicles in the first 12 weeks.

Many of the advances and refinements in design are the direct result of war-time technical developments. A feature common to all models is improved engine lubrication, and engine mountings have been redesigned to permit smooth top gear running down to ten miles an hour The economical 8 provides swift and comfortable transport for four adults.

The 10 has attractive new and more comfortable seating and body appointments. This model has a counter-balanced crankshaft for smooth running,

The 12 and 16 cars are luxury five-seaters with flowing coachwork lines achieved without sacrifice of seating and luggage room. Each has provision for radio equipment, air conditioning plant, and built-in hydraulic jacks. The 16 is a newcomer to the Austin range, and is equipped with a quiet running but extremely powerful overhead-valve four-cylinder engine. The appointments are luxurious.

Mr E L Payton, chairman of the company said the motor industry was eagerly awaiting further Government decisions on matters vitally affecting its policy and progress.

New Austin Cars. FROM OUR CORRESPONDENT. The Times (London, England), Wednesday, Jan 31, 1945; pg. 2; Issue 50055

NEWS ITEM (truncated)
New Austin Eight to cost £326
Deliveries to begin on July 16 . . . The 10 h.p. de luxe saloon, which is now going into production, will cost . . . Deliveries of the new overhead-valve 16 h,p, will begin on August 14 and of the 12 h.p. on October 9. . . .
New Austin Eight To Cost £326. The Times (London, England), Wednesday, Jun 13, 1945; pg. 2; Issue 5O167

Eddaido (talk) 00:53, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

The Austin Counties Car Club state that the 6 cylinder engine was developed during WWII. (http://www.psimmonds.org.uk/?page_id=50)They do confirm that the 12 and 16 share body and chassis. Malcolma (talk) 07:53, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Malcolm. I'll start asking deeper questions here. By the way it was a four cylinder engine, the item you refer to is confusingly written. Good to have confirmation its the same body 12 and 16. Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 22:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

My local VAR contact has given me the email address for another member in the immediate locality where that NZ pic was taken. No response yet and the address looks . . . sort of seasonal. All I can do is wait. However some other things have come up: another export car? this is a Dutch site, a 1939 Austin 16 brochure, 2199 4-cyl ohv, maybe the truck 6 came from it, and an April 1939 mention of the new 1939 Austin 16 and a possible explanation but that last has a flat radiator and for the moment that (Australian) computer is down so I will be back when I can get to see that news item again. Later, Eddaido (talk) 10:43, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

The Austin Counties Car Club says "The Austin Sixteen was introduced in August 1945, the new model having been announced in the motoring press in late September 1944." So I looked for a news item but found none. However in the process I did find this advertisement which you can check for yourself but it says:

The Austin Motor Company Limited. Display Advertising The Times, Friday, Nov 17, 1944; pg. 7; Issue 49994. AUSTIN

announce their
IMMEDIATE
POST-WAR
PROGRAMME
which comprises the following models

8 . 10 . 12 . 16 HP

For post-war all these proved cars will carry refinements
in design which will provide the motorist with increased
comfort and efficiency, and even greater dependablility
—the fruits of five years' "battle testing".

It seems to me the wording is downright odd for a vehicle introduced to the trade for the first time a few weeks earlier. Proved cars What do you think?

Austin 18 1940

And next we have this conundrum, an 18, and dated 1940. I think GTHO might have an answer. Best regards, Eddaido (talk) 12:29, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Isn't this a strange phrasing for a brand new car? Eddaido (talk) 00:28, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I think I can help with the confusion. The 'new Austin Twelve' was introduced in 1939, days before war broke out. It had an almost identical body to both the post-war 12 HP and to the Sixteen HP, both of which shared the same (post war) body. However - the original body jigs etc. were lost in the war, so in fact body panels from a pre-war (HRB) Twelve, do not fit a post-war (HS1) Twelve - they're slightly different. The photo of a '1940 Austin 18' is simply mis-captioned - there was a pre-war Austin Eighteen ,which had a completely different body, produced from 1937-39. There was alao a different pre-war Sixteen H.P. but it shared nthing with the post-war model. The car pictured below is either a late pre-war Twelve, or possibly a post war Twelve or Sixteen. The Sixteen was not introduced until 1945 - it had the all-new 4-cylinder OHV 2199CC engine, variants of which were also used in the Austin A70 Hampshire and A70 Hereford, the Austin K8 and in the A90 Atlantic and the Austin Healey 100/4.

The new Austin Sixteen was announced in the British motoring press in the week of September 29th 1944, with several page articles in 'The Autocar' and 'Motor', as a forthcoming car, and went on sale in !945 - it was the first new car to be produced by Austin (and possibly by any British manufacturer after the war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:B807:3600:C5E:7BC6:488:6426 (talk) 16:46, 5 February 2017 (UTC)