Talk:Australia and the Southern Ocean

Reasons for this page

I have created this article as a fully referenced discussion of the issues surrounding a content dispute summarised at talk:Australia#Ocean names. It is entirely possible that it will eventually get merged into some other article such as Southern Ocean, Great Australian Bight, or Geography of Australia. --Scott Davis ^Talk 10:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Scott, this page looks good and is, I think, a sensible way to approach the issue (probably not of great interest to all that many people except us geographer/cartographers!). I made one addition to that last para....does that look o'k? This page is an excellent idea and a good means of "handling" (explaining to the WP audience, especially in Australia in this case) why the main article has to have the "official" word most prominently placed (while explanations like this can be folded in.) (This approach is a good example, I think, of how WP could address for users in Iran and the Arabian Pen. the "Persian Gulf" vs. "Arabian Gulf" issue, "Sea of Japan" vs. "East Sea", etc., etc.)

By the way, I agree with that observation of yours that the IHO dramatically overextends the extent (east and west limits) of the Great Australian Bight, and agree with what I think is your position that the IHO should not be considered to have authority over anything with regard to how a country names and defines limits for its own bodies of water such as the Bight. Not their "business." For international oceans, though, as you know they simply are the authority, recognized worldwide and in WP, even when they unfortunately ignore common practices such as where Australians usually place the "Southern Ocean.

And nice catch (!) on that obvious screw-up by the CIA cartographers on that one map....I hadn't noticed that before....The CIA World Fact Book identifies the water south of Australia as the South Pacific Ocean, just to confuse this discussion further!![1] --Scott Davis ^Talk 09:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC) As you may have noticed, the CIA World Fact Book, despite that gliche on their 2005 map that you found, clearly labels "Indian Ocean" due south of Australia on its 2007 map of "Oceania", its main map covering the region in question. And its world maps have consistently for years squeezed in "Southern Ocean" between 60S latitude and Antarctica, not in the waters south of Australia.DLinth 18:02, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou. What is missing so far is any detail about legal naming. Does Australia have to ratify the decision of the IHO? Has it done so? Does it intend to? What was Australia's vote in the IHO, and did it get any other support?

I think we need to be very careful using the word "official" to describe either name. The references I have found suggest that in Australia, the "official name" is Southern Ocean for the open water south of the continent. I have not found a single Australian reference yet using "Indian Ocean" east of Cape Leeuwin. The two gazetteers would be my usual references, and I haven't found conflicting sources on either of their websites, either. One of my concerns in this discussion is the use of phrasing that suggests that Australians are misguided or out of date in referring to that water as the Southern Ocean, if that is in fact the correct name in Australia.

Maybe Australians have a thing about boundaries. We also have articles on Western Australia border and South Australia-Victoria border dispute. --Scott Davis ^Talk 23:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)