Talk:Avdat

Image needs replacement

Hello all...

An image used in the article, specifically Image:Avdat view to the Negev.JPG, has a little bit of a licensing issue. The image was uploaded back when the rules around image uploading were less restrictive. It is presumed that the uploader was willing to license the picture under the GFDL license but was not clear in that regard. As such, the image, while not at risk of deletion, is likely not clearly licensed to allow for free use in any future use of this article. If anyone has an image that can replace this, or can go take one and upload it, it would be best.

• And also, Image:Avdat.JPG

You have your mission, take your camera and start clicking.--Jordan 1972 (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC) Whitney-You explained the temple and how is was used. Not sure what else you would need to add. (Wmwright (talk) 23:59, 29 November 2012 (UTC))

Sean - I'd be interested to see whether the dimensions of each section of the temple held any kind of religious significance in worshiping Obodas, same for the exterior of the temple as well. Iowa.Grad.13 (talk) 03:13, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

V.V- To Sean's question I checked Yadin and i didn't read anywhere that suggests an interpretation the sizes of adytum. --DumbArtStudent (talk) 04:09, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

No Nabataean continuity

See more recent studies. Arab/Palestinian narrative w/o scientific merit. Abandoned at least twice, various Arab tribes (Thamudic and Safa'itic) moving into the area in Roman period and destroying the town sometime after 126, with Roman veterans settling there for a while after 250 and a mixed Byzantine population inhabiting it in its 6th-c. heydays. Fully abandoned by 650, soon after Arab conquest. Nabataean names, cultural elements etc. don't disappear into thin air from the region immediately after 106, but there is no Nabataean continuity in terms of continuous habitation, ethnic majority, or any other parametre dear to 19th-20th-c. national discourses.

Lead is ± fixed, body not yet. Arminden (talk) 16:03, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

For avoiding the mistake of confusing cultural elements (pantheon, script) with ethnic markers, see for instance "The Qur'an in Context: Historical and Literary Investigations Into the Qur'anic Milieu" pp. 233-234 incl. footnotes. It relates to the worship of Obodas as seen from a 4th-c. Nabataean-Arabic inscription, and the use of hymns sung in Arabic by the inhabitants of Elusa "to their gods" well into the 4th-5th c. (Epiphanius of Salamis & Jerome). Arminden (talk) 16:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Not a new source, but useful. Some 21 years ago, Erikson-Gini and Yigal Israel wrote:

"The earliest archaeological evidence points to Nabatean trade routes through the Negev as early as the 3rd century BCE. Actual Nabatean colonization appears to have taken place in the last decades of the 1st century BCE at Oboda and Elusa with the establishment of a new road between Mo’a and Oboda by way of the Ramon Crater. A second wave of colonization appears to have taken place along secondary routes in the middle of the 1st century CE at Mampsis, Sobata and Rehovot-in-the-Negev. New evidence points to a continuation of Nabatean trade and settlement in the Negev after the Roman annexation of Nabatea in 106 CE and as late as the early 3rd century CE. The collapse of the international trade system in the 3rd century appears to have forced the local inhabitants to seek an alternative means of livelihood in the form of agricultural production, and inter- regional trade was prompted in the early 4th century by the massive deployment of the Roman army in the region. The indigenous Nabatean inhabitants in the Negev maintained close cultural ties with Petra as late as 363 CE and new evidence also suggests that the Nabatean language, script and religion survived well into the Byzantine period until the adoption of Christianity in the 5th century CE."

Tali Erickson-Gini and Yigal Israel, [https://mushecht.haifa.ac.il/images/catalogues/archeology/Nabateans/giniisrael.pdf "Recent Advances in the Research of the Nabatean and

Roman Negev"], in The Nabateans in the Negev Renate Rosenthal-Heginbottom (ed.), Hecht Museum Haifa & University of Haifa, 2003. Arminden (talk) 20:31, 11 May 2024 (UTC)