Talk:Avion (car)

learning to use Wikipedia for factual updates to page about the car I made

I am adding factual information about the Avion car that I made and drove to set world records of fuel economy. all the information I am adding is documented by PE engineer using good engineering practices for measurements of fuel economy Bullfroger (talk) 18:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Bullfroger. Thanks for your contributions. Please have a look at this page for an introduction to Wikipedia's guidelines on reliable sources and how to use them here. Other users have also left some messages on your talk page with more helpful links. Also, I see that you're describing this as the "car that I made and drove". If this is accurate, I recommend taking a look at this page for guidelines and restrictions on editing articles about subjects that you are personally involved with. Goodnightmush^Talk 19:28, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

@Bullfroger: put all those links here along with a suggest edit. Knitsey (talk) 20:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/homegrown-the-homebuilt-1980s-hot-rod-with-119-mpg/

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/avion-sets-new-mileage-record-at-1191-mpg-or-1975-l100-km/41235/

https://www.wired.com/2010/09/avion-canada-to-mexico/

https://sandiegoairandspace.org/newsletters/article/artifact-spotlight-the-avion-car#:~:text=The%20Avion%20Car%20holds%20a,gallons%2C%20averaging%20119.1%20per%20gallon!

https://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/08/lightweight-avion-travels-1-478-miles-on-12-4-gallons-of-diesel/ Bullfroger (talk) 21:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2024

Bullfroger (talk) 20:56, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=8593d9a482&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-a:r-6048048687294851265&th=191af7f5b820998c&view=att&disp=safe&realattid=191af7f51a3538c295d1 Bullfroger (talk) 21:50, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/homegrown-the-homebuilt-1980s-hot-rod-with-119-mpg/ https://www.auto123.com/en/news/avion-sets-new-mileage-record-at-1191-mpg-or-1975-l100-km/41235/ https://www.wired.com/2010/09/avion-canada-to-mexico/ https://sandiegoairandspace.org/newsletters/article/artifact-spotlight-the-avion-car#:~:text=The%20Avion%20Car%20holds%20a,gallons%2C%20averaging%20119.1%20per%20gallon! https://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/08/lightweight-avion-travels-1-478-miles-on-12-4-gallons-of-diesel/

• I don't know what you are looking to have done. Drmies (talk) 20:58, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Drmies: this editor is struggling a bit with technology. I think the editor would like to add one of these sources to back up his edit During the contest the Avion drove from Canada to Portland. A distance of over 250 miles and averaged 113 miles per gallon. At that time the Avion was the first and only car in the contest to achieve the contest goals. The Avion withdrew from the contest after contest official's wrote the rules to favor battery powered cars. They were reverted as we asked them for references. Knitsey (talk) 21:05, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

OK User:Knitsey--can I leave it in your capable hands? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:06, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Umm, probably? I will give it a go. Knitsey (talk) 21:10, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I am attempting to send photo of Alex Mars documentation of the 2010 119.1 miles per gallon trip from canada to mexico using 12.4 gallons of fuel but cant upload it .

I can attach it and send it via email if you send me a message I will send you the pxl back to see the proof documented by a professional engineer Thanks for your help

craigh.vri@Gmail.com97 Bullfroger (talk) 22:00, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

yep struggling is a understatement.

I just want to get it correct

Thanks

Craig Bullfroger (talk) 21:11, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

attempting to add factual articles to Avion (car page) and revert to my last update.

having lots of problems with it seems someone locked me out because they did not believe me.

I'm the person that built the car and set the records

I am leaving to travel to Switzerland and wanted to update it so I can show people on my trip but I don't think I can do it and needs help.

Thanks

Craig

https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/homegrown-the-homebuilt-1980s-hot-rod-with-119-mpg/

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/avion-sets-new-mileage-record-at-1191-mpg-or-1975-l100-km/41235/

https://www.wired.com/2010/09/avion-canada-to-mexico/

https://sandiegoairandspace.org/newsletters/article/artifact-spotlight-the-avion-car#:~:text=The%20Avion%20Car%20holds%20a,gallons%2C%20averaging%20119.1%20per%20gallon!

https://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/08/lightweight-avion-travels-1-478-miles-on-12-4-gallons-of-diesel/ Bullfroger (talk) 21:06, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I've had a look at the references. My summary is that there was a first trip, in 1986, Mexico to Canada, then a second trip in 2010 Canada to Mexico. Then a third trip, Bellingham to Portland, improving on the first milage? Is anyone else reading this the same? Knitsey (talk) 21:35, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=8593d9a482&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-a:r-6048048687294851265&th=191af7f5b820998c&view=att&disp=safe&realattid=191af7f51a3538c295d1 Bullfroger (talk) 21:50, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

to clarify

first trip Mexico to Canada 1986 104 mpg (rounded up from 103.7 mpg) then during time I was approved in the automotive x prize I broke that record but driving over 250 miles from Canada to Portland at 113 real-world miles per gallon. and then third trip 2010 after I withdrew from the contest because they did not want me to win so they made the rulles to favor battery cars so I decided to demonstrate the avion and drove it from Canada to Mexico (over 1400 miles) with out refueling. I used only 12.4 gallons of fuel and still had enough to drive back to LA with out adding fuel.

The car runs on diesel but can run on biodiesel too so it can be carbon neutral.

Thanks for your help Yours

Craig Bullfroger (talk) 22:08, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Great, OK. So we can't say anything about the competition and your withdrawal reasons as that would really need a lot of verification. Wikipedia needs to be very careful about negative edits. We do only have your word about that and I'm afraid that won't happen with the references you've provided. We would need other, independent sources that are not based on a quote from you.

Based on [1] this reference, we can add something about the trip to from the Canada to Portland.

[2] we can use for the citation needed section about the San Diego museum.

Autoblog, We can't use as it's a blog plus it basically repeats the other articles. I think this is about as much as we can do at this point. Knitsey (talk) 22:38, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

OK,

I agree its not good to be negative (I can get collaborative information on that subject but it is not worth it) The connection to avion car web site was pirated and should be deleted. and any of the links to articles like wired and forbs would be cool.

Thanks for your help with this. Remember: history is remembered by the person doing the writing and Wikipedia's policy's do do help to get it as close to accurate as possible.

As a personal note: it would have been fun to have the ten million prize that the auto x prize promised and the avion is the first road legal car to break the 100 miles per gallon fuel economy mark.

Fun factoid : Avions 119.1 miles per gallon using USA gallon converted to the English gallon is 143.03 miles per gallon.

Looking forward to the update.

Yours

Craig Bullfroger (talk) 23:13, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I had forgotten about the website, I've removed that now. I will compose something about the other items.

Usually it's up to editors to compose the edits they are requesting but I appreciate that to novices it can be tricky to navigate. I have struggled with the technology side of Wikipedia as well, so on this occasion, although it won't be exactly what you wanted at least it's something.

As for 143 miles per gallon, I wish I had your car! Knitsey (talk) 23:22, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

You can see the Avion at the Air and space museum I have long term loaned it to them so everyone can see it.

The seemly impossible is possible if you work hard enough and do not give up!

Just like getting this updated.

Thanks

Craig Bullfroger (talk) 23:27, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I think that's about it. Somene may want to improve my edits as composition isn't my strong point. Knitsey (talk) 00:02, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Please add " in 2010 Craig Henderson drove the Avion from The Canada border to the Mexico Border averaging 119.1 real world miles per gallon on diesel with out refueling thus resetting his record from 1986 at 119.1 real world miles per gallon. with the same motor the Avion can run on Bio-diesel making it carbon neutral. "

And you have collaborating articles and please add links to the links I sent to you.

Yours

Craig Henderson Guinness world record holder for border to border fuel economy. Bullfroger (talk) 00:35, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

please include my edits or forward them to those that can.

I have read your story and hope you are doing better with out pain.

I am a retired engineer and now I am working for free for the kids making places for them to learn to sail and improving the football (we call soccer) fields and giving back my time to help.

The Avion car is my proudest legacy and I just want the world and the kids to know that it is possible to do the seemly impossible.

When I get back from Europe I would like to learn how to improve this content.

Thanks very much for your help.

Yours

Craig Bullfroger (talk) 00:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

It's late here (uk) so I will have to leave it for now. Of someone else can fill in the blanks that would be great. If not, I will revisit this in the morning. Knitsey (talk) 01:32, 2 September 2024 (UTC)