Talk:Awan (tribe)/Archive 6

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awan tribe personality

Sadiq sayeed khan ex former secy Govt of Pak Chairman supreme council tanzeemul awan Pakistan belong to Hazara Division Abbottabad city Dhamtore after shifted this family to Jangee Qazeean Mansehera road Abbottabad Awankhalid223 (talk) 10:36, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done as Sadiq Sayeed Khan does not have an article, so is ineligible for inclusion. Please WP:Write the article first - Arjayay (talk) 10:58, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@Arjayay Awankhalid223 (talk) 07:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2023

Sadiq Sayeed Khan (Former Federal Secretary Govt of Pakistan) & (Chairman Council Tanzeem ul Awan Pakistan) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tahir mehmood awan (talk • contribs) 23:36, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
I'm guessing that you want him added to the list of notable Awans, but Sadiq Sayeed Khan does not have an article, so is ineligible for inclusion. - Arjayay (talk) 09:01, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

@Arjayay yes Awankhalid223 (talk) 15:28, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Sadiq Sayeed khan

Sadiq Sayeed khan Former Secertsry Govt of Pak and Chairman supreme council Tanzeemul Awan Pakistan is famous personality Hazara Awan tribe village Damtore and after shifted his family Dhamtore to Jangi Qazeean his father Late Khan Qalandar khan was very power full burocrate in British regime he was frist president Tanzeemul Awan Hazara Division Abbottabad and all awan brothery Hazara Division gathered his family has very great services for beloved pakistan Awankhalid223 (talk) 18:20, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done as Sadiq Sayeed Khan does not have an article, so is ineligible for inclusion. Please WP:Write the article first - Arjayay (talk) 10:59, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@Arjayay Awankhalid223 (talk) 22:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

This page is consistently a train wreck

The latest change to this page beggars belief; from some periodically propounding the myth that the Awan tribe is of Arab origin, it has now got to the point that an attempt is being made to pass off the Awans as a Persian tribe. Contrary to the claims made in the latest iteration of this article (based on flimsy and questionable accounts), modern research (including genetic studies) actually points to the fact that the Awan tribe is indigenous to the subcontinent. Moreover, to claim that the language spoken by this tribe, along with their traditions and customs, reflects ties to other Persian groups, is ridiculous, when the reality is that their linguistic and cultural traditions, as well as their social customs, are in keeping with the other tribal groups which have long inhabited those parts of Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa where the Awan tribe predominates. Hassan B. Awan (talk) 12:00, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Questionable sourcing

• "The Frontier Policy of the Delhi Sultans", page 186, "..Handreth's theory suggests that the A'wans, though recent immigrants into the Punjab, are descended from the Bactrian Greeks..[..] best available account of the tribe the A'wans are indeed said to be of Arabian origin".

• The Journal of Central Asia, attempts at finding a journal of this name resulted in nothing. There is a "The Journal of Central Asia & Caucasia Review". Also this reference has no page number either.

• Muhammad Abdul Qadir, Punjab Castes, no publishing year, no page number, no result on google books unverifiable.

• Olaf Caroe, The Pathans, no page number, the word Awan does not show up on a search. Fails verification.

• Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan Or The Central and Western Rajput States of India · Volume 1, no page number, outdated work by civil administrator not an historian. Not a reliable source. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:33, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

All the sources for "Persian" appear to be primary sources, unsupported by any secondary or tertiary sources, thus unreliable. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Infobox

Infobox contains unsourced and wrong information. The information is contrary to article because the ethnicity of Awan tribe is not established. Only clue of it is tribe's own understanding of their ethnicity which is Arab. Location of tribe is also contrary to article because inforbox gives their location as Punjab, Sindh and Azad Kashmir while the article states that majority resides in Punjab, Khyber Pakhtunkhaw and Kashmir. Similarly, there is no mention in article of language being used by the tribe which according to infobox is Punjabi while the tribe is spread over a vast area and speaks indigenous languages including Lehnda, Pashto, Hindko and Kashmiri. If any language can be associated with this tribe, its the tribal language Awankari and not Punjabi.

I personally don't see any need for infobox because its just a start-class article but if it is to be included than it should atleast contain correct information. Thanks. - Greentree0 (talk) 10:25, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

British Raj Source

The recent addition to article which supports the assumption that Awans might have a Jat origin is backed by footnote in a controversial book which itself states that this assumption is derived from a British Raj Gazetteer. There are many British Raj sources which support different origin theories of Awans, according to some they are Arabs, others Greek, Pashtuns and even Rajputs. British Raj sources are extremely unreliable, thus this addition should be reverted. - Greentree0 (talk) 14:22, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 September 2023

Ibrahim11111 (talk) 07:22, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Awan is not a panjabi community the information provided in the Wikipedia page is entirely wrong. Awans speak Pashto and hindko in a vast majority and more than 50% of Awans live in Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa have been entirely excluded from the page and a point to know that they came with the forces of mehmood ghaznavi from Afghanistan is also not included and much more so I request u to allow me edit this page because alot of information provided is wrong and please let me correct it to avoid vandalism

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 10:02, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

British Raj Source

The recent addition to article which supports the assumption that Awans might have a Jat origin is backed by footnote in a controversial book which itself states that this assumption is derived from a British Raj Gazetteer. There are many British Raj sources which support different origin theories of Awans, according to some they are Arabs, others Greek, Pashtuns and even Rajputs. British Raj sources are extremely unreliable, thus this addition should be reverted. - Greentree0 (talk) 14:22, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

British Raj Source

The recent addition to article which supports the assumption that Awans might have a Jat origin is backed by footnote in a controversial book which itself states that this assumption is derived from a British Raj Gazetteer. There are many British Raj sources which support different origin theories of Awans, according to some they are Arabs, others Greek, Pashtuns and even Rajputs. British Raj sources are extremely unreliable, thus this addition should be reverted. - Greentree0 (talk) 14:22, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Inaccurate information about Awans caste on Wikipedia

Awan is not a panjabi community the information provided in the Wikipedia page is entirely wrong. Awans speak Pashto and hindko in a vast majority and more than 50% of Awans live in Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa have been entirely excluded from the page and a point to know that they came with the forces of mehmood ghaznavi from Afghanistan is also not included and much more so I request u to allow me edit this page because alot of information provided is wrong and please let me correct it to avoid vandalism Ibrahim11111 (talk) 15:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done This is not the right page to request additional user rights.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:55, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Awan is not a panjabi community, corrections need to be made on Wikipedia page

Awan is not a panjabi community the information provided in the Wikipedia page is entirely wrong. Awans speak Pashto and hindko in a vast majority and more than 50% of Awans live in Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa have been entirely excluded from the page and a point to know that they came with the forces of mehmood ghaznavi from Afghanistan is also not included and much more so I request u to allow me edit this page because alot of information provided is wrong and please let me correct it to avoid vandalism Ibrahim11111 (talk) 15:40, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done Please do not repeat the same request, as this can be seen as disruptive editing. - Arjayay (talk) 15:57, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Adding more notable people

The following names should be added: - Tajammul Hussain Malik, was a senior officer in the Pakistan Army and the former General Officer Commanding of the 23rd Division of Pakistan Army

- Muhammad Huzair Awan, is a Pakistani Information Technology (IT) professional and public speaker

- Sher Shah Awan, was a British Indian Army soldier who received the Victoria Cross

- Abdul Majeed Malik, was a lieutenant general in the Pakistan Army, World War II veteran, diplomat and later politician who served as minister of Kashmir Affairs & Northern Areas and minister of States & Frontier Regions

- Abdul Khaliq, also known as Parinda-e-Asia (Urdu for The Flying Bird of Asia), was a Pakistani sprinter from 8 Medium Regiment Artillery who won 36 international gold medals, 15 international silver medals, and 12 International bronze medals for Pakistan.

- Samina Awan, is a British-born actress best known for her role as Naseema in Love + Hate (2005) and has been nominated for BIFA

- Ghulam Farooq Awan, is a Pakistani lawyer and columnist, and former adviser to the Prime Minister of Pakistan for law, justice and parliamentary affairs

- Muhammad Safdar Awan, s a Pakistani politician and retired Pakistan Army officer who has been a member of the National Assembly of Pakistan from June 2008 to May 2018.

- Malik Shakeel Awan, is a Pakistani politician and businessman who served as a member of the National Assembly of Pakistan from 2010 to 2013.

- Malik Shakir Bashir Awan, is a Pakistani politician who had been a member of the National Assembly of Pakistan, from 2008 to May 2018

- Akil Awan, Senior Lecturer (equiv. Associate Professor) in Modern History & Political Violence Director of the Conflict, Violence and Terrorism Research Centre (CVTRC).

- Firdous Ashiq Awan, is a Pakistani politician from Istehkam-e-Pakistan Party. She has served as Special Assistant to Prime Minister on Information and Broadcasting from 2019 to 2020, Federal Minister for National Regulations and Services from 2012 to 2013, Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting from 2011 to 2012 and as Federal Minister for Population Welfare from 2008 to 2010. She served as the Special Assistant to the Chief Minister of Punjab on Information and Culture, in office from November 2020 to 6 August 2021.

- Dildar Mohammad Awan, was a Pakistani cricketer who played first-class cricket in Pakistan from 1958/59 to 1972/73

- Imran Pervez Awan, is a Pakistani born American cricketer.

- Shahid Imran Awan, is a Pakistani-American information technology worker. From 2004 to 2017, he worked as a shared employee for Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives

- Muhammad Hanif Malik Awan, is a Pakistani politician who had been a Member of the Provincial Assembly of the Punjab, from 1997 to 1999 and again from June 2013 to May 2018. He had been a member of the National Assembly of Pakistan from December 2012 to March 2013.

- Malik Meraj Khalid, was a Pakistani advocate, left wing politician and Marxist philosopher who served as Caretaker prime minister of Pakistan from November 1996 until February 1997. Lorenor Zoro (talk) 13:50, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Additional Reference to be included in the article

Mārg̲: A Magazine of Architecture and Art, Volumes 1-2

1946, page 32:

"The people of this area are 90 per cent Muslims of the Awan tribe. They are an independent and proud set, claiming unmixed descent from a tribe of Arab invaders." QutbShah (talk) 21:34, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I dont think there is much good reason to have listed them as Punjabi muslims in the opening body

So an edit was added claiming that Awan are a Punjabi Muslim tribe at the very start. I dont think this is a good idea, it doesnt really help to simplify the tribe to new readers, just confusing since this people group dont even identify themselves as Punjabis and some of the people follow other cultures too, like Pashtuns, Qizilbash, Tajik cultures in Peshawar. The opening body already tells you they are settled in the West Punjab region. That shouldve been and has been enough detail for the reader.

It feels misleading and this has only ever been a recent (ONLINE) phenomenon of identifying Awans as a Branch of Punjabi identity. This isnt something meant to be added to Wikipedia. It is not in the place for Wikipedia editors to assign an identity to them for the sake of simplifying or just for the sake of giving it an ethnicity. Leave it as is instead of adding "Punjabi Muslim". RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 05:26, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

You need to read WP:NOR. It's properly sourced. Sutyarashi (talk) 09:53, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Can you tell me why this is properly sourced? RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 10:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I quite understand what you mean. If you mean where it is sourced, there are two citations in the very first line. Sutyarashi (talk) 10:23, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

For the second source, maybe you could point out what its saying because I only found that it only says Awans are a people group of Punjab.

The second source doesnt really help much, its a dictionary on American surnames which isnt in much capacity to declare it as a Punjabi tribe. Awans are mostly people from Punjab, thats really the only conclusion we can have from that source. Awans are not on par with something like Jats or Arain people. Why are the Awan an ethnic Punjabi tribe if they dont even exist in East Punjab? No source gives any definitive origin of Awan people so there isnt good reason to use this wording, "Punjabi tribe" for it.

Unreliable British writers write about them having possibly Jat origin thats it. I havent seen any good reason to call it a Punjabi tribe it is MISLEADING. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 11:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

That's what The Garrison State: The Military, Government and Society in Colonial Punjab 1849–1947 states: Consequently, socially dominant Muslim tribes such as the Gakkhars, Janjuas and Awans, and a few Rajput tribes, concentrated in the Rawalpindi and Jhelum districts in the northern Salt Range tract in the Punjab, accounted for more than ninety per cent of Punjabi Muslim recruits.

If you believe a source from Oxford University Press is unreliable then you can take it to RSN. Rest is, again, your speculation and original research, backed by nothing and really not much of an argument. Please avoid it. Sutyarashi (talk) 12:20, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Not a Punjabi tribe. A "Muslim tribe". And for the American surname source, it does not back what you are saying adequately. Awans arent a tribe of Punjabi identity and arent really considered as such. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 13:52, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Not a Punjabi tribe. A "Muslim tribe".

Read the whole quote, not just first part.

And for the American surname source, it does not back what you are saying adequately.

No it very much does. Go through it again.

Awans arent a tribe of Punjabi identity and arent really considered as such.

I will not bother replying if you're only going to make unsubstantiated claims. That's unhelpful and not how Wikipedia works. Sutyarashi (talk) 15:34, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not arguing theres no relation. An Awan person can be considered Punjabi but thats because that person would be from Punjab. An Awan from Peshawar or elsewhere north-west is not going to be identified as Punjabi. Seemingly use of the term Punjabi tribe is a geographic designation. Like I said before, a Jat or Arain is a Punjabi while no one in East Punjab knows what an Awan is. When did they become a Punjabi people? RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 16:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Do you want to ask Pakistani/Punjab topic editors about it? Does Awan = Punjabi? RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 14:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

You do have a point ,idk how or when it’s been considered to be linked to one specific peaple Nebula1321 (talk) 17:17, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

You have been here for a year, but I don't think you properly understand WP:GUIDELINES. The sources for Punjabi ethnicity are reliable and verifiable; you'd need equally reliable sources to prove them Pashtuns or whatever you think they are. Your personal observations about them, while may not be entirely untrue, mean nothing, and same holds true for Pakistani/Punjab topic editors, as it is original research while Wikipedia is based upon what RS state. Sutyarashi (talk) 15:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Its just logical thought. No one in the world can surely comment on if the Awans are Jats or a large tribe of Sayyid/Arab origin, but I'm saying Wikipedia shouldnt declare it to belong to one and that the original wording is better, even if the ethnicity is unknown because it just is. It is not in the place for an american family name dictionary book to declare the tribe as Punjabi or the vague British source because it can just be considered a geographic/language designation, Awan people dont even entirely live in Punjab but in northern Pakistan too like Hazara or Peshawar, even speaking Persian or Pashto.

Does Awan = Punjabi? Is it really proven that Awans are historically a Punjabi tribe just like a Cheema or Chattha is? Not sure if this is relevant to mention but Awan people dont really consider themselves as Punjabi.

Awans that live in Punjab are eligible for Punjabi identity but I cant see how they can be declared as a whole to be a tribe of it. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 16:38, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I hate to repeat myself again, but that's all original research. Have you any source backing up what you say? Sutyarashi (talk) 17:26, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree with him and I also think it should have the Punjabi tribe removed as that’s the most logical thing to do since they don’t even consider themselves it aswell Nebula1321 (talk) 17:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

He has got a point though and btw there is a lot of fake awan out there Nebula1321 (talk) 17:30, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Well most will agree with you anyway on this , and this is people that I have spoken to and know who are from Awan tribe especially The ones from kpk

I mean they even look different or if anything look like the peaple from that specific region Nebula1321 (talk) 17:30, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

It is not fair to list Awans as punjabi muslims...

dear u have wrote in the article with headline about Awans as Punjabi muslims which is not fair...listing them as punjabi is much more blurry than listing them as Pashtun or arab...i could not understand the criteria by which a rqce is recognized in such websites...pashtuns living in punjab remain pashtun, baloch remain baloch then why such discriminatory while mentioning Awans as punjabis rather than pashtuns or arabs...so plz remove this term punjabi from the article..furthermore Awan is not a punjabi word it is an arabic word which means Helper...plz change that mistake... 137.59.220.64 (talk) 04:58, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

DNA report regarding Awan tribe...

dear hazara University has performed the DNA research of the tribes living in kpk including Awans...result of their research confirmed the whole tribe claims of arab descent is true and they close to Syeds..and haplogroup T1 originated in israel is found in Awans only...in this advance period of science such proofs can not be denied...so look into the matter and change that misleading ethnicity of Awan tribe. Malikkhel (talk) 05:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 July 2024

I need to edit this some parts of its are wrong, On the right side you didnt write Awan is Present in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa instead wrote sindh which is inaccurate 2001:8003:3E2C:BB00:6C7C:1869:F712:D1B (talk) 20:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Tantomile (talk) 05:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)