Talk:Away in a Manger

Music credit

A quick Google search shows that the music for this song was composed by William Kirkpatrick. Shouldn't he be referenced in the article? Cparker 01:17, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The carol is associated among Catholics with the tune "Mueller," and with "Cradle Song" among some Protestants.

A scan through my hymnal collection shows "Mueller" used in at least one Presbyterian hymnal and one Baptist. The United Church of Christ hymnal I have (an old one) uses "Cradle Song" as do both the Episcopal Church's 1940 and 1982 hymnals. Another Baptist hymnal has both. I think it would be more accurate to say that the carol is associated with the tune "Mueller" in some churches and with "Cradle Song" in others.Rockhopper10r 02:57, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

No crib?

The first definition of crib in the New SOED is:

"A barred receptacle for fodder etc.; a manger, esp. that in which the infant Jesus was said to be laid."

So surely the original wording was 'a crib for a bed'. Then, when the word's use was extended to any baby's cradle, a process of hypercorrection led to a reversal. But, if you think about it, no one would ever say 'no crib for a bed'; they'd simply say 'no crib'. Grant 22:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I think a "crib" is more commonly associated in the US with a baby's bed. e.g "chiefly North American a child’s bed with barred or latticed sides; a cot:" Memsom (talk) 13:47, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Saturday Night Live

I guess I'm not going to add this since this is more in the realm of pop culture, but I believe "Tonto", "Frankenstein", and "Tarzan" (Kevin Nealon, Jon Lovitz, Phil Hartman) did a performance of this in a ~1988 episode of Saturday Night Live. Basically all the articles were stripped out, e.g. Away in manger / no crib for bed, etc. -Rolypolyman (talk) 16:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

People sing the carol all the time. Why should Saturday Night Live get a special plug? 71.56.66.132 (talk) 11:15, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Beethoven's Symphony No. 6 in F, 5th Movement

I heard this piece of music for the first time and kept hearing bits of Away in a Manger . . . Coincidence, no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.132.7 (talk) 21:18, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Two Different Tunes

Why doesn't this article make mention of the fact that there are 2 well-known but quite different versions of the song - same lyrics but different tune. Hard to describe in an article the differences, but hopefully most people know what I'm talking about. Is one the UK and one the US version or something? --Mezaco (talk) 23:17, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

It shouldn't be hard at all. Musical notation was invented for the purpose centuries ago. Just print a few measures of the score, or if that's too difficult, just give the notes:

"American" version: D | D C B | B A G | G F# E | D. "English" version: D | G G A B | G G B C | D D E | C 71.56.66.132 (talk) 11:15, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

link to Schneefloeckchen-Weissroeckchen

There is a German Christmas song with very different lyrics "Schneefloeckchen, Weissroeckchen" with the same melody as "Away in a manger". Can someone explain this link? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andreas Prokop (talk • contribs) 05:47, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

The melody (Kirkpatrick's) is also quite similar to the German child song "Im Märzen der Bauer". Maxelost (talk) 02:39, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Whose tune?

Under 'History' Murray is described as editor, the melody is credited to Clark. Under 'Music' it's credited to Murray. Obviously both can't be right, I assume that the reference to "Murray's tune" should refer to "Clark's tune", but since I have no idea if I'm actually right I'm leaving it to someone more knowledgeable to correct it.Deke42 (talk) 20:31, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

No Crying He Makes

The article includes the objection that the phrase 'no crying he makes' is odd or misleading as it "misses a key aspect of the Incarnation, Jesus entered into our suffering". What should be included in this context, however, is the allusion to the early tradition of Jesus being born miraculously, without travail, and preserving Mary's virginity. Ancient writers (perhaps relying on Is. 66:7) on this include Gregory of Nyssa, Pope Leo, Thomas Aquinas, et. al. Actually, showing the connection of this verse with these early teaching would be an interesting enhancement. Tachypaidia (talk) 17:34, 4 December 2010 (UTC)Tachypaidia

Deleted Jennings statement in that including it in the article appears to give undue weight to a single individual view absent context. The Christianity Today page cited also includes 86 additional comments, most of which seem to take issue with that expressed by Mr.Jennings.Mannanan51 (talk) 04:53, 28 November 2011 (UTC)mannanan51

“Theological” section centers on editors bickering over tangential matters a decade ago. The section is poorly sourced and likely unnecessary. If no one objects, I suggest the section be removed. For now, dubious citation replaced with tag. 2001:448A:1082:1ACD:D9BF:4818:4221:CD2A (talk) 07:45, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Done. Following 2 month period without objection. 2001:448A:1082:33FA:7927:D1F8:A521:F78E (talk) 01:36, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

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Material removed from main article

I've removed the following claim from the main article because it is not backed by a reliable source:

The first half of the melody is identical to the beginning of the second theme of Waltz #4, transposed down a fourth, in G'schichten aus dem Wienerwald, Op. 325 by Johann Strauss Jr., composed 19 years earlier.

FWIW (and I'm speaking off-the-record here), while there is certainly an interesting resemblance between the two pieces of music, the claim that the two melodies are "identical" is simply untrue. For two melodies to be identical, they must match in both rythym and pitch, and the rythyms of the two works are significantly different. In terms of relative pitch, the first ten out of the eleven notes in the Murray phrase do indeed match the Strauss: however they follow a regular descending sequence of the kind that is found throughout all types of music. I would be astonished if there are not other melodies in the musical literature that also match the Murray.

In any case, please feel free to reinsert the claim if a reliable source can be found.

Cheers. Grover cleveland (talk) 05:06, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

References

Earlier dating

A blogpost seems to have found an earlier publication of the lyrics: The Congregationalist, January 4, 1882.

This should be added to the article if it can be verified (I can't find an archive for The Congregationalist online). Grover cleveland (talk) 00:56, 8 June 2020 (UTC)