Talk:Axis occupation of Greece

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Removal of gossip about bar fights, Greek girlfriends etc.

I removed this paragraph, but my edit was reverted. Please read carefully. I think this paragraph is definitely not fit for a serious encyclopedia, and it offers nothing to the reader. The article already explains that there were tensions between German and Italian occupation authorities in Greece, that relations were sour etc. To include the following (which reads like adolescent gossip) seems rather silly.

"frequently Greek bars that hosted servicemen from the two Axis nations were the scenes of bloody fights. It was German policy to strongly discourage relationships between German servicemen and Greek women as the German leaders feared miscegenation between the "pure" Aryan Germans and the racially inferior Greeks, who were seen as debased Aryans, "tainted" by miscegenation during the long period of Ottoman rule. By contrast, the Italians had no such inhibitions, which utterly disgusted Wehrmacht and SS officers. German officers often complained that the Italians were more interested in making love than in making war, and that the Italians lacked the necessary "hardness" to wage a counter-guerrilla campaign because so many Italian soldiers had Greek girlfriends." 2A02:214C:825D:F00:F0A7:207C:8B7D:28E7 (talk) 18:33, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

The section is relevant because it is not just "gossip". Aside from being reliably sourced material, it is relevant to the (dismal) relations between the Greek populace and the occupiers, especially the German ones. Plenty of stuff here is very relevant. It explains why Greece did not have a problem of German "war babies" after the war nearly to the extent that other countries like the Netherlands did. It also notes the racist beliefs that Nazis had about Greeks, which is highly relevant to how they continued to horde Greece's resources as drought and famine ensued -- even, as Glenny notes, using exorbitant amounts of water to obsessively wash their vehicles during the height of the drought. They did not see Greeks as fully human (along with many other peoples in their sick ideology). I'm very sorry if you don't like this and prefer to label it as "gossip" but it is highly relevant material.--Calthinus (talk) 19:43, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

You don't answer to what I wrote. And Greeece did have a problem with war babies (see Margaritis or Giannopoulos for example). I don't have a problem with a paragraph stating the racist beliefs of Nazis (in fact, I think it is an absolutely essential inclusion on the article), but not in this manner (bar fights etc.). I will rework it 2A02:214C:825D:F00:F0A7:207C:8B7D:28E7 (talk) 20:08, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Okay, I misinterpreted what was going on, because the edit summary didn't cover all done in the edit. My apologies. Your current version works for me. --Calthinus (talk) 22:02, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Towards creation of The Holocaust in Greece

Hello @SilentResident, Alexikoua, and Ktrimi991: my apologies that I dropped the ball on this. I will work a bit more after freeing up some time in real life in the coming two months. For the time being does it make sense to redirect The Holocaust in Greece here? Currently it goes to History of Jews in Greece.--Calthinus (talk) 15:37, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it is a good idea. Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:40, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Makes more sense. --👧🏻 SilentResident 👧🏻 ^{(talk ✉️ | contribs 📝)} 15:42, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

2A02:587:9815:8F00:8D19:2333:DCF1:EA58 (talk) 03:16, 27 August 2020 (UTC)== Was the occupation of Greece quadruple and not triple, because of Albania? ==

I mean yes Albania back then was in union with Italy but as people are the forth occupiers behind Germans,Italians and Bulgarians and they fought the Greeks in the Italian army. So essentially Greece was occupied by 4 Axis nations.

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Bias

This is a very detailed article and great information to have in the public commons. However, it is clearly written from a Greek point of view, using mostly pro-Greek sources (often in the Greek language). In some sense, this is acceptable because it's about the occupation of Greece, but there are two types of violation against the Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy

1. On a detailed level, there are many judgement words (ex. "unfortunately") throughout the article that show favor to ethnic Greeks, the Kingdom of Greece vis-a-vis the Hellenic State (1941–1944), and Greek territorial claims. I having been working to clean this up and present ideas from the original authors of the article in a more neutral light, and will continue to do so. I've also dropped a handful of citation needed tags, but think someone who can read Greek can probably find the claims in sources cited nearby.
2. On a broader level, I'm worried that the bias in sources may have resulted in over-representation of facts that accentuate hardship for Greek people and citizens of pre-war Greece while missing facts might make occupying forces look better. This ranges from framing of events (see example below) to perhaps missing entire sections the make the Axis/collaborationist groups look good or Kingdom of Greece groups look bad. I came to this article to learn, so don't feel qualified to make judgement on whether the underlying information of the article is slanted, but wouldn't be too surprised if it had happened by accident given point one above For just one example, there are a couple sentences on the Drama uprising that frame it as occurring as an obvious reaction to unreasonable policies. There's even a picture of a stone marker until today captioned as a memorial for victims of the "Drama atrocity." I've cleaned up some specific words here, but mostly left the framing as a reasonable reaction in place.... Would the Bulgarian authorities really have considered it reasonable if they responded with deadly reprisals?

LbPirate (talk) 03:09, 26 June 2023 (UTC)