Talk:Aztec mythology/Archive 1

Archive 1

'Legendary heroes and kings'

Under the above-named subsection in this article, two of the three listed (Moctezuma & Cuauhtémoc) are historical (ie, actual) personages- I wonder therefore if it's entirely appropriate to mention them here. They could only be regarded as "legendary" figures in the more general or colloquial sense of 'well-known, even famous', and are not legendary in the sense of being mythical which is how I would interpret what is meant by this subsection. Perhaps they could be regarded as being somewhat iconic figures, but this would really only be in latter-day terms, not from the perspective of the historical Aztec civilization which is what this article relates to.

Are there any particular reasons for their inclusion here, or, if not, any objections if they were to be removed?--cjllw | TALK 23:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Historicaly figures should not be called "legendary" unless the usage is clearly metaphorical. Here it is not. - Jmabel | Talk 05:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, those two now removed. Thanks.--cjllw | TALK 02:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Chivas should be here

Chivas should be in Aztec mythology —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.155.216.57 (talk) 16:21, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Everybody must get stoned

I came across this from somewhere (but can't recall a source...): Xumantunich, called "stone maiden", described as fertility goddess. This belong here, or at Maya gods? TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 22:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Afraid not, it's not a Nahuatl/Aztec term. Xunantunich is a Maya site in present-day Belize, meaning something akin to "woman (of) stone". But that's a name of more recent origin, and the supposed 'ghost' legend going with it in not an authentic precolumbian Maya belief or deity.--cjllw ʘ TALK 07:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Suits me. I'm happy just knowing where it comes from. Thanks. TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 23:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Creation Myth

Last paragraph previously stated: Our age (Nahui-Ollin), the fifth age, or fifth creation, escaped destruction due to the sacrifice of Nanahuatl (the smallest and humblest of the gods) who transformed himself into the Sun by leaping into a fire.

This is factually incorrect. The myths themselves state that we are currently in the 5th age. The myth regarding the sacrifice of gods was related not to how the destruction of the 5th age was avoided, but in fact how it was created. I only cited one source here, but multiple sources point to this, including colonial documents. Paragraph corrected to reflect the actual myth. 76.202.16.230 (talk) 01:19, 28 October 2012 (UTC)Mesoamerican Archaeologist

Table in Creator gods section

The table is problematic. Tezcatlipoca was an Aztec deity as were the others but no reliable source is cited to claim that they were "tezcatlipocas" and the individual articles about them don't say that they were. The contention that they were some form of the smoking mirror god is contrary to mainstream scholarship. The table should be deleted and replaced with a list of these gods without the contention that they were Tezcatlipocas and their association with the directions unless a reliable source can be found. Senor Cuete (talk) 23:22, 10 March 2013 (UTC)Senor Cuete

The statement that there are four Tezcatlipocas is pretty basic stuff which will be found in pretty much any reliable source on aztec mythology. It is depicted in the Codex Borgia.[1][2][3]User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:35, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Thirteen Heavens

Hi. Can someone please try link to this orphaned article? Thanks Gbawden (talk) 11:47, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I've added it to the Aztec mythology navbox - it will be thoroughly linked now. Simon Burchell (talk) 12:17, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I recommend tempering the credulous depiction with this source.Nielsen, J., & Reunert, T. S. (2009). Dante's heritage: questioning the multi-layered model of the Mesoamerican universe. Antiquity, 83(320), 399-413.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:37, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Aztec Pantheon

Stop reverting my edits to Xiuhtecuhtli and Tlaloc's descriptions. They are accurate.

Xiuhtecuhtli was indeed associated with time. "Xiuhtecuuhtli was thought to control time and the calander." [4] He was also known as "Lord of the Year". [5] This is directly from his wiki page. "The Nahuatl word xihuitl means 'year' as well as 'turquoise' and 'fire', and Xiuhtecatl was also the god of the year and of time."

It is common knowledge that Tlaloc was associated with thunder, lightning and storms. These are directly from his wiki page.

"He was widely worshiped as a beneficent giver of life and sustenance, but he was also feared for his ability to send hail, thunder, and lightning, and for being the lord of the powerful element of water."

"Although the name Tlaloc is specifically Aztec, worship of a storm god like Tlaloc, almost always associated with mountaintop shrines and with life-giving rain..."

"Tlaloc's impersonators often wore the distinctive mask and heron-feather headdress, usually carrying a cornstalk or a symbolic lightning bolt wand; another symbol was a ritual water jar. " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.67.72.150 (talk) 22:41, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia can't be a reference for itself. "it is common knowledge..." can't be used in the article because it's WP:Weasel words. azteccalendar.com might not qualify as a reliable source because it's probably WP:self-published. I believe that what you say about Tlaloc is true. Why not cite a WP:reliable source? Senor Cuete (talk) 00:45, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Azteccalendar.com is also problematic because it's so crammed with advertising. This might disqualify it for WP:QUESTIONABLE Questionable Sources: "promotional in nature..." What's the problem with adding citations to reliable sources? Senor Cuete (talk) 00:51, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't see much advertising on Azteccalendar.com

It's a shame that whoever is responsible fro azteccalendar.com lets whoever is hosting this site crap it up with advertising. It doesn't cost much to have someone host your site. However, these companies will give you a break on the cost if you let them to do this. This site looks excellent and reputable to me, except for the advertising. Senor Cuete (talk) 14:50, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

• (Neumann, Franke J. "Paper: A sacred material in Aztec ritual." History of Religions 13, no. 2 (1973): 149-159.

Harvard ) "Its patron was Xiuhtecutli, the fire god, who was also the lord both of life and of time."

• I don't find many references to Tlaloc as God of thunder, many more mention him as God of rain and fertility.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 00:53, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Excellent, so add the content with reliable sources. That book that the IP editor cited appears to be self-published. Senor Cuete (talk) 00:57, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

• Boone, Elizabeth Hill (2013). Cycles of Time and Meaning in the Mexican Books of Fate. University of Texas Press. ISBN 978-0-292-75656-4.

Here's another source that says Xiuhtecuhtli was God of Time. "Xiuhtecuhtli god of fire, time, and the calendar......"[6]

And here is two more. "Xiuhtecuhtli was associated with rulers and warriors and presided over time and the calendar." [7] "Xiuhtecuhtli, god of fire and time" [8] So i will simply change Xiuhtecuhtli's description and leave Tlaloc as is.

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Capitalize/Change the word mythology?

• The page Aztec Mythology is a redirect to here, but it should be the other way around?
• Consider changing the word "mythology" to "religion" to respect the belief system of the Nahuatl speaking peoples who are still extent. Benito (talk) 18:18, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Mythology and religion are two different things. Mythology is a body of stories that are part of a religion. The word is neutral and does not disrespect the belief system based on the stories. There is also Christian mythology. Also the Nauatl speaking people today do not practice this religion.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 07:21, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Pillar Man

There seem to be some light wikipedia vandalism going on this page, pillar men isn't an aztec pantheon, but anime villains from the series jojo's bizarre adventure, there is no relation to this and aztec mythology outside of fiction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.38.10.18 (talk) 18:24, 10 April 2019 (UTC)