Talk:Błażej Koniusz

Asked for input on BLP Noticeboard

I am reluctant to say "BLP violation" but still concerned that this edit, which has the appearance of not being a coincidence with move of article name from where user Severo put it, may be against BLP guidelines and therefore have noted concern on BLP Noticeboard. I have also asked WT:PL to check the source, though I am 99.99% certain that it is a reliable source, and the opinion of WT:BLP should weigh more than Project Poland and Project Tennis in this instance. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:17, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, the link: Wikipedia_talk:Biographies_of_living_persons. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:09, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

I am concerned about the claim that he is known professionally without diacritics. I think it is rather that many professional, English language website don't use diacritics because they don't care to implement international standards. For example, [1] is clearly such a case, as they use an incorrect, certainly not-official name for his place of birth (Swietochlowice). Therefore the argument about lack of diacritics, seems simply to reflect on the poor information handling at those websites; the fact that many of them miss information on his place of birth, for example, doesn't mean that we would add (professionally, place of birth is unknown, or spell it incorrectly). Also, Polish professional websites, such as that of the PZT (Polski Związek Tenisowy/pl:Polski Związek Tenisowy - Polish Tennis Association) use diacritics for him ([2]). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 15:14, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

(I have added that url as a ref). In ictu oculi (talk) 00:55, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

The results the come up for this subject are predominantly in Polish and with a diacritic. Even if he really did play under a diacritic-free name, the opening should not focus on a minor spelling variation. If the title is going have diacritics, the name in the infobox should be diacritic-free. People typing on English-language keyboards should be able to find this thing. Kauffner (talk) 02:35, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Błażej Koniusz. Favonian (talk) 19:58, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

---

Blazej Koniusz → Błażej Koniusz – Polish person, Polish names use diacritics according Poland, this is rule for all the tens of thousands of biographies supported by Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland. There are no exceptions for Category:Polish male tennis players, with the exception of this single article all others within it use diacritics (if present, of course): Andriej Kapaś, Łukasz Kubot, Michał Przysiężny, Ignacy Tłoczyński. The fact that foreign websites occasionally omit diacritics is their problem; unless that person requests a name change in Poland to remove diacritics from their name (which they can legally do, if they'd want) his correct name is the one with diacritics. The diacriticized name is also the one used on all Polish websites (here's a selection of articles mentioning him from the major Polish daily, Gazeta Wyborcza). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 14:55, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 15:07, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support per (i) restored Polish source, (ii) BLP accuracy criteria, (iii) WP:DIACRITICS example "Tomás Ó Fiaich, not Tomas O'Fiaich," (iv) WP:CONSISTENCY Category:Polish male tennis players, (v) WP:UE examples "Besançon, Søren Kierkegaard and Göttingen" (vi) WP:RS conflict with Wikipedia:TENNISNAMES#IPIN_registration. (This 'vote' is a separate issue from concern about source deletion noted above). In ictu oculi (talk) 15:16, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
• Giant meh. God I'm sick of these. Jenks24 (talk) 15:19, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support. His name is Błażej Koniusz, Blazej Koniusz doesn't exist. Kmicic (talk) 16:06, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support. Błażej Koniusz is his real name. Vinz57 (talk) 19:46, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support; removing diacritics from names doesn't make them english, it makes them wrong. bobrayner (talk) 11:07, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support for reasons given above by other editors. Doremo (talk) 07:44, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose and another meh - Per ITF and ATP, English sources (per wiki), the English press, etc, plus his chosen registered name with the governing body of tennis, it should remain at Blazej Koniusz. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:46, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
  • English sources, especially press, may based on wrong title of an article in Wikipedia. Kmicic (talk) 10:01, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
    • So might foreign sources. We use English sources per wiki policy and we use the name a player registered with at the governing body of tennis. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:17, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
      • But name Blazej doesn't exist. In English is Blaise, in Polish is Błażej. Błażej Koniusz was born in Poland, in every official documents he is mentioned as Błażej. Wikipedia shouldn't create a reality. We can write Błażej in English [3]. The title of an article should be Błażej Koniusz and the article should be started in this way: Błażej Koniusz (sometimes mistakenly Blazej Koniusz). Kmicic (talk) 11:54, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
        • Where do you get the idea that's how it works? Blazej Koniusz certainly exists in English. In every official document in tennis that's how it's spelled. It is far from a wiki "reality" when all the English sources spell it Blazej Koniusz. You think Serena Williams wants her name spelled Serena Williamsová in the Czech wikipedia? It's not her English name at all. But it is her Czech name so that's the way it should be spelled in a foreign Czech wikipedia. This is not a head count for an administrator so they don't go by a show of hands, they go by number of various arguments and which they deem stronger at this English wikipedia. I have no idea what americká is in some of these other wikis either but if that's how they spell it there that's fine with me. But Blazej contacted the ITF and told them that "Blazej Koniusz" will be my English alphabetic name forever in tennis usage, and that carries a lot of weight especially since the only reason he is notable and on wiki at all is because he plays tennis well. By the way my family is Kolodziej in English and Kołodziej in Poland so it's not like I have some Polish bias. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:05, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
          • Go ask Czech Wikipedians about that, but their rules do not apply to en wiki. And pl wiki usually keeps foreign spellings, so it is Serena Williams in Poland, too. With regards to your family name, if you or your ancestors have officially changed it to Kolodziej in USA, than I am sorry, your Polish name is also Kolodziej. Adding (or dropping) diacritics creates false, illegal names. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 15:39, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Fyunck, no "my family is --l----- in English and --ł----- in Poland" is not anti-Polish bias, but it may indicate a WP:OR element to the formula you have devised "--ł-----.. professionally known as --l-----" line in the lede of those 104x BLPs. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:43, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

What? What a ludicrous statement. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:50, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm afraid you raised it in support, one way or other, even it's only as an illustration to show lack of bias, but it's still WP:OR. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:23, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

It was raised as an example that non-diacritc Polish names can become English names through usage and vice versa because we and mutitudes of families do it. As for OR, plenty of articles use a similar format such as Novak Djokovic. It was originally (Sanskrit: %$#*&^) but when changed to a tough to read foreign name up front the parenths also needed changed to (English:John Doe) or (alternate name:John Doe) or (professional name:John Doe). I'm not picky about the exact format if that's what you are implying but this person is known by at least two different spellings (one in English and one not) and it is wiki policy to include them. I make sure wiki readers get the whole story and you keep denying them vital information. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:46, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Many names became de-diacriticized, but that holds primarily for the immigrants who came to the US before WWII, when immigration officials jotting down their names didn't give a damn about the diacritics, and ignored them. Some others changed their names legally for reasons that are less clear to me, but in either case the point is that somebody went through a legal process of a name change resulting in a de-diacriticized name. BK never did so, he is a Polish citizen, and there is only one legal spelling of his name out there. That some websites or even organizations refuse to use diacritics is their dumbing down problem, not ours. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 15:30, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

• Support. Native spellings should be used for non-anglicized names (WP:UE), and accuracy and encyclopedic style are more important than commonness in the sports press (WP:BLP, WP:NOT#NEWS). Prolog (talk) 20:22, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support Per WP:UE. --Teukros (talk) 19:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Błażej Koniusz. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131226142227/http://www.pzt.pl:80/klasyfikacje/baza-pzt/5302?id_zawodnik=613&plec=1 to http://www.pzt.pl/klasyfikacje/baza-pzt/5302?plec=1&id_zawodnik=613
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111231034433/http://www.tenis.sport24.pl:80/zawodnicy/show/8743/ to http://www.tenis.sport24.pl/zawodnicy/show/8743/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:25, 11 November 2016 (UTC)