Talk:BMW 6 Series (E24)

Untitled

No discussion of the L6 or the M6? Can anyone add anything? --75.83.113.217 06:43, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

General

Should we consider merging this article with BMW 6 Series? There is a lot of overlap between the two.

In reply to the comment left by Jsding. The creation of a separate page for Series and E number is the same for other BMW models. e.g. BMW 5 Series and BMW E12, BMW E28, BMW E34, BMW E39.... and BMW 3 Series, BMW E21, BMW E30.... so I suggest that rather than merge the article, we should improve and expand this one.

One small request... it would be good if people leaving comments on this talk page would login and sign your comments using ~~~~ for username and timestamp. Thanks. --Xagent86 08:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Random comment, but there's no obvious link that leads me directly to BMW from this page. Partway down, you get a link to BMW M and from there you can get to BMW, but it still feels like the manufacturer should feature in the first blurb or in the template somewhere. Maybe I am missing it, but that's sort of the point I'm making :) --50.64.136.76 (talk) 05:48, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

First production?

> was the basis for the first production of BMW 6-Series Coupés,

Should that not be "the second"? The E9's were considered sixers, were they not?
--Baylink 17:21, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Very confusing...

I found this article very confusing. It appears to have been written by at least three different people, each of whom gives their particular verstion of the history of this car, while completely ignoring what has already been said. The result is a very confused history with much conflicting information. For example, a reader attempting to learn in what year a particular version of this car was first sold in the U.S. would get three different answers. They can't all be correct.

I'd attempt to clean it up myself, but would do no better as I am not myself familiar with the material. Any subject-matter-experts care to give it a try...?

Need explanation

"The CS 3.0 was almost changed by adding a few inches in height to make it easier for wealthier customers to get into the car."

I would like an explanation to why wealthy customers have difficulty in getting into cars of a lower height. Do they keep their fat wallets in the rear trouser pocket? Or are they more likely to wear top hats? Are they just taller? Jason404 (talk) 03:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

6-series vs 8-series

They are pretty similar, a top end 2-door coupe. They even have the same designation "CSi" in their title. When adjusted for inflation, the price of an 840Ci is only about 15% more than a 635CSi. BMW e24 production was 50,000 while 8 series(E31) was 30,000. --Integracer (talk) 22:47, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Technical data (table): 4A1 carb is not a single carburetor

In the table about technical data the 4A1 carburetor was characterized as "single" carb which is not quite true (and is unlikey for large engines, see Carburetor#Multiple_carburetor_barrels. I removed the little word "single". See this web page (link) about another BMW with the same carburetor: "The factory carb is the Solex 4A1, basically 2 [...] dual barrel carbs combined into one [...] 4 barrel." --84.159.212.26 (talk) 00:10, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Designer of the E24

I have a source which states that the original 6 Series was designed by in-house designer Paul Bracq. I have added this information, citing and quoting my source. This has been reverted, showing Marcello Gandini and Manfred Rennen as the designers.

Is there a reliable source stating that these men designed the 6 Series of the 1970s and 1980s? What reason is there to believe this is so?

Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 11:34, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Further to this, I have found another source stating that the Paul Bracq design competed against a design proposal submitted by Italdesign Giugiaro and won. No mention of Bertone, Gandini's employer at the time.

Is there a document anywhere that claims that Bertone in general, and Marcello Gandini in particular had anything whatsoever to do with the BMW 6-Series? Can it be found in less than seven days?

Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 19:19, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Engine specifications

Hello Mr.choppers. Could you please let me know what the incorrect info was that this edit of yours corrected? I tried to make sure that all the unit conversions were done correctly, but apologies if any errors slipped through. Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle (talk) 05:27, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Well, you incorrectly removed metric hp from a German car. See WP:CARUNITS: "We use the local standard first when making judgments on localized units and terms. The unit order follows a vehicle's major market." I am not going to argue that PS needs to come before kW, but to exclude it is simply wrong and will only lead to confusion. Also, I am unsure why you changed the engine displacement back from cc to litres (especially in light of several engines having very similar displacements). I will restore the SOHC vs DOHC information.  Mr.choppers | ✎  05:44, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for the explanation. I think your description for reverting my changes as " restore correct information" is a bit unfair, since it appears to acutally be a difference in interpretation of policy.

  The section for Power & Torque in the policy you linked says "The power rating for cars from metric countries should be shown in kilowatts (kW), with horsepower (hp) in parentheses. American cars will use horsepower (hp) with kilowatts (kW) in parentheses, and British cars will use brake horsepower (bhp) with kilowatts (kW) in parentheses", so I believe my changes are supported by policy.

  The displacement was changed to litres because it is a more widely used unit, therefore I think it is more suitable for an article about the car in general. The M30's displacements all round to separate 0.1 L increments, so there is no confusion about multiple versions being shown as the same displacement.

  Thank you for not reverting my addition of SOHC/DOHC to the table, and for improving it by adding the Wikilinks. Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle (talk) 22:52, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

"We use the local standard first when making judgments on localized units and terms. The unit order follows a vehicle's major market." Pretty incontrovertible. Even in the horsepower section which was added later, it reads: "Other units— such as metric horsepower (PS)— may be used...when the unit is closely linked with the vehicle." Which is clearly the case. Including all three units is the wisest choice for an automobile which was also marketed globally, especially in light of the fact that nearly all dependable sources use PS or kW when discussing the 6-series. Some are themselves confused, such as Norbye, who calls metric hp "bhp", sometimes "bhp (DIN)", meanwhile referring to American hp as "bhp (SAE net)". BMW themselves include kW and PS.  Mr.choppers | ✎  14:09, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

• Hello Mr.choppers. Could you please stop doing sweeping reverts, which wipe out my unrelated changes?

  I do not agree that Pferdstarke is closely linked to the E24, since the series was produced in Europe after 1972 (as reflected in the way owners handbook for the car). It is true that Norbye is usually a great resource for cars of this era, however his confusion regarding horsepower abbreviations does not seem relevant here. Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle (talk) 23:07, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect. Germany is a metric country and uses PS as well as kW, which is reflected in the owner's handbook and the sources you have included. Please stop conflating your unwarranted removals of PS with other edits. Thanks.  Mr.choppers | ✎  13:39, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

• Again, could you please stop doing knee-jerk blanket reverts of my edits? This is wiping out unrelated changes I have made and is not in accordance with the WP:REVONLY policy.

  There is nothing in WP:WikiProject_Automobiles/Conventions#Power_and_torque about using the obsolete measure of Prefdstarke for German cars.

  I assume it is the I6 and SOHC/DOHC links in the table that you believe to be overlinking, the reason I linked every line is for when the reader re-orders the table, however I don't mind if you prefer that they are only linked once. MrsSnoozyTurtle (talk) 06:07, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

As I have asked you several times, please stop conflating your combative and incorrect edits with new additional ones. You are clearly doing this on purpose, trying to build a protective wall around your edits. The unit is not "Pferdestärke", as I have explained to you several times already - it is the metric definition of a horsepower. Wikipedia uses "PS" as the abbreviation for horsepower, but that doesn't mean that we spell out the German word. The unit is not in any way obsolete, it is strongly linked to all cars built in metric countries ("horsepower" means 735W in most countries in the world).

Again: every single source that I have looked at that is used in this article, uses metric hp (and sometimes also kW) to describe the European market cars. Oswald, Norbye, all period sources, and BMW themselves all use metric hp. You simply do not have a leg to stand on in stating that it is not strongly connected. That SI was officially adopted did not mean that overnight horsepower stopped being used. In the majority of the world, hp is still the main unit used, and in Germany kW is still not in any way predominant - particularly not when discussing older cars and youngtimers.  Mr.choppers | ✎  15:50, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Even the British importer used PS, see here.  Mr.choppers | ✎  15:31, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Catalytic converter, U.S. specs

Hello Mr.choppers. Regarding your recent revert, as far as I can tell, the automobile-catalogue reference doesn't mention catalyst converters?

And when a single overseas market uses different specifications to elsewhere, I think a balanced global perspective would be to not dedicate half of the table to that country, especially when the differences are described in a specific section later in the article. Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 07:47, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

The Automobile-Catalog reference does mention catalytic converters (on those cars that receive them). Since the North American market cars have different specifications and a different development history from global market cars, they absolutely warrant inclusion.  Mr.choppers | ✎  00:05, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Could you please provide a specific quote from the source? My search for catalyst did not find any results on that page.
I agree that the US-specs warrant inclusion. It would be WP:UNDUE weight for half of the table to be dedicated to one export market, as well as having a dedicated section to it elsewhere in the article. MrsSnoozyTurtle 00:47, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

The following versions and sub-models of BMW 6-series E24/2 (series 3) were available in 1987

(4 versions, see below for more details):

1987 BMW 635 CSi A catalyst ( © PZ automobile-catalog.com™) BMW 635 CSi A catalyst (aut. 4) , manufactured or sold in 1987, version for Europe

1987 BMW 635 CSi A catalyst (aut. 4) specs

And if you click through "VIEW THIS CAR DETAILED SPECS" it lists "Emission control: 3-way catalyst, Lambda-Sensor".

There is no other table which lists the US market models; the size of the section is determined by how many discrete models there were and not by WP:UNDUE.  Mr.choppers | ✎  17:40, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

This is quite strange, because as far as I can see, the Automobile-Catalog page doesn't mention "catalyst" at all.
I disagree that the US models are not mentioned elsewhere, there is a specific section in the article that covers differences in cars sold in the North American export market. MrsSnoozyTurtle 10:01, 22 October 2021 (UTC)